There is only one real conflict

[MorkandMindy]

It is between war and peace.

1. War is expensive. At the end of the Vietnam War the US dollar was taken off the gold standard. A big change from when JFK became President and the National Debt was rapidly closing in on zero.

2. Wars make enemies.

3. Our weapons industry is so big we don't have much of a 'peacetime economy'.

 

[Winken]

I certainly recall no ND expectations with Kennedy and Bill Clinton. Folks talked about a balanced budget. Whoosh! Gone!

 

[MorkandMindy]

Personally it was the end of my faith.

I started hoping to change my life and live the one God wanted me to live.

I was studying Luke in my personal Bible Study following Search the Scriptures (IVP).

The commandment was to go forth and make disciples, and I avidly read sending out the 72 evangelists

Luke 10 5 Whenever you enter a house, first say, ‘May peace be on this house.’ 6 If anyone there shares God’s peace, then your peace will rest on that person. If not, your blessing will return to you.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I wasn't sure what to give as a message. All I had was the greeting of giving peace and then extending it to 'peace on Earth good will toward men', peace with God.

That appeared to be the main message.

And there's this parable of the Good Samaritan and 'love your neighbor as yourself' and that 'neighbor' also therefore includes someone from a different country.

This seemed to suggest we shouldn't steal from other countries or bomb them, but I couldn't get any present day Christian support on that especially since most of Joshua and Judges is about killing complete communities.

 

[MorkandMindy]

So I asked a very knowledgeable Anglican layman (I lived in England so most Christians were in the CofE) who was engaged in evangelism and he said the church does not have a stance on war or peace, he is personally in favour of peace but the majority in the pews are not.

Running out of options I asked him to explain to me what the gospel did demand as a lifestyle and he said he would get back to me, but never did.

 

[MorkandMindy]

He talked a lot about how the World was really under 10,000 years old and the inaccuracies of radiocarbon dating and how the Bible was known to be accurate and how a bit of John was found wrapped in a mummy and dated back to 100 AD.

But I wanted to know, if it is all true then how should we live? Read the Bible daily, pray daily, seek guidance.

My conversion was a result of a visit by Campus Crusade for Christ. I was very happy with all the Four Spiritual Laws and waiting to find out the wonderful plan for my life.

I was to pray and read the Bible and bring others to Christ. And then they would find out what the wonderful plan for their lives was.

 

[MorkandMindy]

It all got very circular, we produce disciples whose purpose is to produce more disciples, and that is the only purpose of disciples.

I spent ten more years hoping on and off that this wonderful plan would somehow appear, but I really was expecting too much.

The entire Anglican Church was losing numbers rapidly and to me there appeared to be a lack of focus.

It has a Lutheran theology so in WW1 which was a big thing in Europe, there were Lutheran priests on both sides helping soldiers go to Heaven after they got killed shooting at each other.

That was one of several problems but if anyone is interested, the Anglican Church is the third largest Christian denomination in the World and it is in rapid terminal decline.

 

[Winken]

It appears that authentic Christians, actual members of the Body of Christ, have shifted to slow motion, and are in danger of closing shop. That is, however, a real contradiction for authenticism. Obviously, those who remain unsaved, those who are counterfeit, and those who have backslidden, are helping in the rush to padlock the gate. Nevertheless, I shall never give up, never go back to being lost, or a seeker, or whatever. Heaven is my home (and that of my wife and our family), and I long to check in.

 

[MorkandMindy]

The Authenticism you mention is at the very core of what is going wrong.

I don't know about 'padlocking the gate', I spent years looking for it but never found it.

The chaplain said 'after you are born you still need to grow, read the Bible every day, pray and meet with other Christians and you will grow in Christ'.

I eventually wrote to Campus Crusade for Christ and got the answer of what the 'God has a wonderful plan for your life', actually was, that I was now born into Christ's family and that was his plan for my life.

So that was the wonderful plan - hang around religious people.

The chaplain's 'it takes time' really means keep going to church and putting money in the collection.

 

[mark kennedy]

It is between war and peace.

1. War is expensive. At the end of the Vietnam War the US dollar was taken off the gold standard. A big change from when JFK became President and the National Debt was rapidly closing in on zero.

2. Wars make enemies.

3. Our weapons industry is so big we don't have much of a 'peacetime economy'.

We tried after WW2 to scale back our military, at the start of the war we had 150,000 or so in uniform. At the height of the war we had almost 20 million in uniform. It's been hovering right around 2 million ever since. We spend and enormous about of money on our military, they are the single largest consumers of petroleum products in the world. We have a military budget that is twice that of the next five biggest militaries combined.

Don't get me wrong, I feel you on this, I'm just not optimistic that we are going to dismantle our war machine. Would to God it were otherwise.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I appreciate your input Mark!

 

[Winken]

The Authenticism you mention is at the very core of what is going wrong.

I don't know about 'padlocking the gate', I spent years looking for it but never found it.

The chaplain said 'after you are born you still need to grow, read the Bible every day, pray and meet with other Christians and you will grow in Christ'.

I eventually wrote to Campus Crusade for Christ and got the answer, that I was now born into Christ's family and that was his plan for my life.

So there was no individual plan and no actual end product either.

The chaplain's 'it takes time' really means keep on attending and keep putting money in the collection.

Well....... I find your final paragraph indicates a lack of insight into what it means to become an authentic Christian. I think you are close enough at this point to embrace the following:

Here is the status of those who are not "Spiritually Birthed.": Romans 3:10.

Here is the Biblical, Spiritual insight into the Spiritually Birthed experience: John 10:28-30. John 3:16-17. John 5:24. Romans 8:1. Ephesians 2:8-9.

As you can see, eternal security in Jesus Christ is guaranteed, and forever.

So how does one get there? Here it is, no rules, no regulations, no policies, no procedures, no performance standard:

Romans 10:8-13.

That's it. Believe it, receive it, walk in it rejoicing.

So what's the catch? There is none. Confess it, and you belong to Him, forever.

Scope out a simple, straight-forward assembly of Christians. Meet with them. Grow with them. Have your Bible at the ready. Smile. Shake hands. Thank God. Rest assured you'll see me and a lot of other folks in Heaven.

You can contact me through the conversation option if you want insight into the various denominations.

Be blessed!

 

[MorkandMindy]

As regards the real conflict, I think it is between peace and war, between unity and alienation, between co-operation and destroying their neighbors.


Writing this thread I'm beginning to see that Christianity isn't in that battle at all, or at least not on the side of peace.

I've heard a lot of Christians complain that we aren't giving enough weapons to Israel because Armageddon is supposed to be there, but Israel is the only one with nuclear weapons and lots of them, so it's just going to blow all the other countries up in a few hours. Unless we supply the other countries the isn't going to be the battle the Christians are looking forward to.

 

[MorkandMindy]

...
Scope out a simple, straight-forward assembly of Christians. Meet with them. Grow with them. Have your Bible at the ready. Smile. Shake hands. Thank God. Rest assured you'll see me and a lot of other folks in Heaven.

You can contact me through the conversation option if you want insight into the various denominations.

Be blessed!

Thank you, it took me ten years to find that was it.

I have trouble understanding the 'grow with them' since most of the Christians I knew are no longer active in the faith, or believe something else. Even our Christian Union President now says 'it seemed real at the time'.

It also took me a long time to get any sort of definition of what the Bible actually was. The Roman Catholic I knew had more books and an Orthodox guy I met had still more. The source manuscripts had other books too as did the first four editions of the King James.

Eventually I met someone who explained that The King James fifth edition of 1885 IIRC is the one scholars tend to pull out as a default. The reason is that the recent versions are sponsored by particular groups and with a couple of exceptions really are awful and can not be used if any kind of accuracy is wanted.


So I think I know what the Bible is now, but I'm not sure about the earlier bit because pretty much everyone I knew has either left the faith or gone a bit odd. One is exclusivist now and the other doesn't believe in God anymore but does believe in Jesus.

many thanks.

I have to go to bed, adios!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I don't think we'll be seeing the military industrial complex going away anytime soon. It makes certain people too much money.

...and they've been very successful at creating a public mentality that "you must support military at all costs otherwise you hate the troops and are unpatriotic"

 

[mark46]

I certainly recall no ND expectations with Kennedy and Bill Clinton. Folks talked about a balanced budget. Whoosh! Gone!

I missed your point about Clinton and deficits.

As I recall, there was a surplus, a 10 year plan to retire the debt, and a 10 year plan to make Social Security and Medicare fully self sufficient. And then, Clinton finished his 8 years. 2 million new jobs a year also, as I recall. So, yes, when there is relative peace, much can be done. And yes, I know that there many military interventions when Clinto was president (e.g. Bosnia). His major wish was that there was one more, in Rwanda. (He has never forgiven himself.

THAT BEING SAID, I don't blame Bush for 911, the turning point in the entire paradigm of peace and war.
Afghanistan was and is expensive. However, the firing of the Baathists in Baghdad was one the worst military decisions since WWII.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

It is between war and peace.

1. War is expensive. At the end of the Vietnam War the US dollar was taken off the gold standard. A big change from when JFK became President and the National Debt was rapidly closing in on zero.

2. Wars make enemies.

3. Our weapons industry is so big we don't have much of a 'peacetime economy'.

War is extremely profitable too.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I don't think we'll be seeing the military industrial complex going away anytime soon. It makes certain people too much money.

...and they've been very successful at creating a public mentality that "you must support military at all costs otherwise you hate the troops and are unpatriotic"

The US hasn't been out of a war for more than three years since WWII.

 

[mark46]

The US hasn't been out of a war for more than three years since WWII.

I believe the last time the US declared war was in 1943.

 

[mark46]

War is extremely profitable too.

I am reminded of the Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition. One states that "peace is profitable". Another states that "war is profitable".