There is NO rapture!!!

createdtoworship · Feb 26, 2011

LovedofHim said:
Paul called it THE departure. It is most definitely an event.

I agree with your posts but

the king james mentions a falling away not a departure....talking about a falling away of the apostacy I believe.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Version)

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

LovedofHim · Feb 26, 2011

gradyll said:
I agree with your posts but

the king james mentions a falling away not a departure....talking about a falling away of the apostacy I believe.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Version)

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul said twice that something must depart before the man of sin is revealed. The latter confirms the meaning of the former.

2Th 2:2not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Messiah had come.
2Th 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

2Th 2:7For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way. (departure)
2Th 2:8Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nothing by the brightness of his coming;

He said the exact same thing in 1 Thess 4 and 5:

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (departure)
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (wrath) so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath (day of the Lord), but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, (departure)

Revelation 12 and 13 confirms the order of events. It shows the church caught up when the devil is cast down who then empowers the antichrist who then blasphemes the church who dwells in heaven:

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 13 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

realtruth101 · Feb 26, 2011

CryptoLutheran said:
This is an excellent example of how not to debate. Asserting that one's interpretation is beyond reproach by appealing to guilt through inference that to disagree is to "deny God Himself" scores no one any points.

I don't deny Scripture, and I certainly don't deny God. What I deny is a theological system that has its genesis in a 19th century sectarian movement. I reject Dispensationalism for the same reason I reject Adventism and Restorationism. They are theological systems born out of a religious environment ripe with sectarianism with a distrust of historic Christianity and the idea that we can just re-make Christianity in the image of our private interpretations of what Christianity should look like.

I don't regard Dispensationalists to be enemies of God, just wrong. Wrong because the theology has no basis in Scripture or any of the historic teachings of the Christian faith. It is a an entire theology and grand hermeneutic that completely re-structures and re-invents the biblical narrative without consideration to what the Church has always taught and in order to arrive to the conclusions Dispensationalists and Neo-Dispensationalists do requires extraordinary acts of interpretive gymnastics to make biblical texts say what they want them to say to make the entire system come out right. It's an impoverished way to do theology, it's terrible scholarship, and it is first rate butchery of the biblical texts. It is a prime example that by great acts of prooftexting and redefining biblical concepts outside of their historic and literary contexts Scripture can be made to say anything.

I don't deny God, I just reject a bad theology based upon even worse hermeneutics.

Two things, one obvious one perhaps not so obvious.

First of all, it should be rather clear to us that the Christians in Philadelphia are long dead and gone. That's who Jesus through John's text is speaking to. Why should I read this as anything other than Christ's promise to the community of Christians alive in Philadelphia two thousand years ago? By what rationale does this become a universal to "true believers" everywhere? What what form of logic does one do this? There is none. The plain context is there, this portion of the text was addressed to the Christian community in Philadelphia, and any universal meaning must arise from the particular meaning.

Second of all, the passage says absolutely nothing about God rapturing or taking or seizing or removing the Christians of Philadelphia from trial or tribulation. It says He will keep them, κἀγώ σε τηρήσω, "I also will guard you..." , τηρέω connotes be watched, Christ watching over, protecting, guarding, keeping His eye on them in order to keep them safe.

No rapture, no taking them out of the world, but rather preserving, keeping, watching over them. That's what it's saying. Because of the faithfulness of the Church in Philadelphia, Christ will protect them from the hour of testing.

No need to repent, there's nothing wrong about rejecting poor theology.

-CryptoLutheran

I probably should jump back page or two to find out what you believe, but what you said in this post is very true, and well written,

createdtoworship · Feb 26, 2011

LovedofHim said:
Paul said twice that something must depart before the man of sin is revealed. The latter confirms the meaning of the former.

He referred to three events which must occur before the judgments of the day of the Lord took place. They are the apostasy (2 Thes. 2:3), the revealing of the man of lawlessness (vv. 3-4, 8), and the removal of restraint against lawlessness (vv. 6-7).

Walvoord, John F. ; Zuck, Roy B. ; Dallas Theological Seminary: The Bible Knowledge Commentary : An Exposition of the Scriptures. Wheaton, IL : Victor Books, 1983-c1985, S. 2:718

Satt · Feb 26, 2011

I think "departure"="apostasy". Just my 2 cents.

son_flower · Feb 26, 2011

Strange how one word DEPARTURE turns into this:

All Christians must be secretly vacuumed away and live in heaven.

DEPARTURE could not possibly mean:

actually leaving Christ behind to worship the wicked son whom they truly adore

Isn't DEPARTURE an act of the will? Now if it said the removal must happen, or some involuntary action by those who are leaving I could understand. But it sais DEPARTURE which is an action done by the one departing.

When he is taken out of the way.....

he?? how is that a bride of any sort?

"he" sounds more like the lawless other half.

createdtoworship · Feb 26, 2011

Satt said:
I think "departure"="apostasy". Just my 2 cents.

yes and no, yes , departure can equal apostacy. But in our situation we were discussing if the rapture was the departure mentioned in 2 thess 2:3, and 7. But in verse seven it's "He" that is taken out of the way, meaning the Holy Spirit. He will let until that time, meaning He will hinder the son of perdition to come. The rapture is spoken as a catching away and is spoken in other places in the Bible. See post http://www.christianforums.com/t7536475/#post56849353

son_flower · Feb 26, 2011

Satt said:
I think "departure"="apostasy". Just my 2 cents.

heres my 2:

apostasia
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

from the word
apostasion
1) divorce, repudiation
2) a bill of divorce

createdtoworship · Feb 26, 2011

here is a link about the restrainer being taken away not the rapture but happens at the same time kinda...

HAS THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE BEEN PROVEN WRONG --- NOPE!

chalkstc · Feb 26, 2011

Lovey,

you wrote.....

Paul called it THE departure. It is most definitely an event.

The term is apostacia which is a departure from the faith, not a verticle departure from the earth.

Here is the only other place in the whole NT where the word is used.....................

Acts 21:21

21

And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

KJV

NT:646

a)postasi/a apostasia (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah); feminine of the same as NT:647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ["apostasy"]:

KJV

- falling away, forsake.

NT:647

a)posta/sion apostasion (ap-os-tas'-ee-on); neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of NT:868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce:

KJV

- (writing of) divorcement.

Do you have a good lexicon, or do you depend on pretrib translaters to force fit your dogma?

Frankie

Manasseh_ · Feb 26, 2011

LovedofHim said:
Paul said twice that something must depart before the man of sin is revealed. The latter confirms the meaning of the former.

But Paul didn't promise or foretell that the church must depart out of this world before or after tribulation begins in order to keep them from harm, he only said it in your mind because you forced those verses to say it the way you wanted.
If I had no knowledge of either a pre or post trib doctrine and read those few verse, I never could get the same information that you injected into those few verses even in a hundred years of reading them

and yet you display no conscience about what you keep adding to God's word.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

no mention of tribulation at all
since there is no mention of tribulation then there is no promise made within the content of these verses, that the church goes BEFORE or AFTER tribulation begins

within context there is only one statement made here by Paul, Christ will not return at any time until , first an apostasy occurs then after that happens the man of sin is revealed.

The only way you could make it work for your doctrine is by changing the simple meaning of apostasy , then adding your additional information by suggesting it into the text.

Neither pretrib or post trib could use these 3 verse then make a claim that saints are gathered before or after tribulation, both sides can only use it for it's content, ie, that an apostasy will happen first, then the man of sin is revealed.

B1inHim · Feb 26, 2011

Lord Jesus must of not gotten His memo...

According to Him, the man of sin is revealed before we leave with Him.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)

Matthew 24

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age, including a falling away

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when youseethe ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 1718 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 1920 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

So far we have Lord Jesus telling us that a falling away from the faith has taken place to this point AND that the man of sin revealed

Then the Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Thus saith The Lord.

This is exactly what Apostle Paul told us about what would happen before "that day" comes in 2 Thes 2...

IN Order according to King Jesus and His Apostle, falling away, man of sin revealed and then the gathering of His elect.

We are to not listen to anyone who say's differently, period.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry

yedida · Feb 26, 2011

LovedofHim said:
Wow, you've really created a whole new gospel for yourself, haven't you? According to the gospel of "dcyates", "heaven is earth". But the problem of that, you see, is your fleshly mind. You are trying to rationalize the spiritual into a box that you can understand.

You are uncomfortable with the idea that there is a spiritual place called heaven where people can actually go that is not earth.

And yes, the earth is God's footstool and God and mankind will once again dwell in harmony together.

The church's citizenship is in heaven. And the "place prepared" for us in the "Father's House" is a city prepared for us there called the New Jerusalem on Mt. Zion above.

Phl 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Hbr 11:16Instead, they were longing for a better countrya heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

If we are to all float around somewhere in heaven, can you tell us about the New Heavens and New Earth which is home to the New Jerusalem? The New Jerusalem is where Yeshua will have His residence with His faithful ones. (This is to all take place after the old heaven and earth have passed away, after the millenium.) So what's this all about if we're gonna be in the old heaven?

LovedofHim · Feb 27, 2011

B1inHim said:
Lord Jesus must of not gotten His memo...

According to Him, the man of sin is revealed before we leave with Him.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)

Matthew 24

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age, including a falling away

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ, and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My names sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation
15 Therefore when youseethe abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 1718 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 1920 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22
23 Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 Therefore if they say to you, Look, He is in the desert! do not go out; or Look, He is in the inner rooms! do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elects sake those days will be shortened.

So far we have Lord Jesus telling us that a falling away from the faith has taken place to this point AND that the man of sin revealed

Then the Coming of the Son of Man

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Thus saith The Lord.

This is exactly what Apostle Paul told us about what would happen before "that day" comes in 2 Thes 2...

IN Order according to King Jesus and His Apostle, falling away, man of sin revealed and then the gathering of His elect.

We are to not listen to anyone who say's differently, period.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry

That is YOUR misunderstanding.

1. The antichrist/devil as NOTHING to do with the abomination of desolation of Israel. Jesus said that the antichrist/false prophet/false miracles arise after the tribulation is cut short in Matt 24.

Listen to Jesus, Jerry:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2. It is not a "falling away" that must occur before the man of sin is revealed, it is THE departure. Paul said that the restrainer must depart before the man of sin is revealed.

3. 1 Thess 4 and 5 as well as Revelation 12 and 13 confirm the order of events. The church, those born of the Spirit of God, will never see the antichrist.

The remnant of Israel, the ungodly, and the "rest of the woman's offspring" will though.

realtruth101 · Feb 27, 2011

gradyll said:
here is a link about the restrainer being taken away not the rapture but happens at the same time kinda...

HAS THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE BEEN PROVEN WRONG --- NOPE!

satan is not more powerful than other angels, like he is some super angelic power, just as any dictator on earth isn't somehow endowed with super human strength, that by sheer brute strength satan is king of his satanic kingdom, Rev. 20 tells us An angel with a great chain binds satan for a thousand years, there is no grand introduction to this heroic angel, he's not even called an Archangel, quite honestly, this is the same sort of idea that it takes the Holy Spirit's entire strength to hold back satan, as if God is wringing His hands in this battle with satan or that somehow God and satan are even close in comparison to authority and power, ITS JUST ANOTHER ANGEL WHO CHAINS UP satan, with that reality, and the reality of scripture that says resist the devil and he will FLEE from you, many accounts of satan and his demons being cast out of humans by Christians, To be scripturally sound, the He who holds him back, could be just ONE human being that is binding satan through fasting and prayer, if it were the whole body of believers it would have been called SHE (the bride) It could easily be equated to Micheal the Archangel who is holding satan back Daniel 10:21

interpreter · Feb 27, 2011

B1inHim said:
Lord Jesus must of not gotten His memo...

According to Him, the man of sin is revealed before we leave with Him.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)

Matthew 24

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age, including a falling away

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when youseethe ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 1718 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 1920 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

So far we have Lord Jesus telling us that a falling away from the faith has taken place to this point AND that the man of sin revealed

Then the Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Thus saith The Lord.

This is exactly what Apostle Paul told us about what would happen before "that day" comes in 2 Thes 2...

IN Order according to King Jesus and His Apostle, falling away, man of sin revealed and then the gathering of His elect.

We are to not listen to anyone who say's differently, period.

By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry

After much persecution was endured by the early Church, the sign of the Son of man appeared in the clouds in 312AD, on Oct.28th, when Jesus came into power through the first Christian horseman, who rode a white horse and conquered all the known world with a bow. Shortly after coming into power, St. Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered all the Church together to Nicea. There was no rapture. Neither does the Nicene Creed mention one.

B1inHim · Feb 27, 2011

LovedofHim said:
Listen to Jesus, Jerry:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2. It is not a "falling away" that must occur before the man of sin is revealed, it is THE departure. Paul said that the restrainer must depart before the man of sin is revealed.

3. 1 Thess 4 and 5 as well as Revelation 12 and 13 confirm the order of events. The church, those born of the Spirit of God, will never see the antichrist.

The remnant of Israel, the ungodly, and the "rest of the woman's offspring" will though.

No, you have misunderstood and even with the evidence of the order of events before you in Matthew 24, you tell us this.

That is OK.

You say it is one way, Interpreter says it is another and IF we actually look at what Lord Jesus says, it is another way.

I SAY, IF we are not ready, we will not be going, no matter what way it is.

King Jesus tells us;10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Then He goes on to say;15 Therefore when youseethe abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand)
Daniel 11:31 (ASV) "And forces shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual [burnt-offering], and they shall set up the abomination that maketh desolate." Daniel 12:11 (ASV) "And from the time that the continual [burnt-offering] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand and two hundred and ninety days."AND then He tells us;29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That is the order, no formula, just the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Love,
Brother Jerry

ThomasDa · Feb 27, 2011

dcyates said:
There is NO rapture!!! No pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib! Nothing! The Bible does not teach a rapture of any kind!

Well

But only people that have read the Bible know.
Shhhh it's a secret.

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2011

realtruth101 said:
it takes the Holy Spirit's entire strength to hold back satan, as if God is wringing His hands in this battle with satan or that somehow God and satan are even close in comparison to authority and power, ITS JUST ANOTHER ANGEL WHO CHAINS UP satan,

I agree, it's just an angel holding back the great apostacy of this generation.

NJBeliever · Feb 27, 2011

interpreter said:
After much persecution was endured by the early Church, the sign of the Son of man appeared in the clouds in 312AD, on Oct.28th, when Jesus came into power through the first Christian horseman, who rode a white horse and conquered all the known world with a bow. .

I've seen you post this many times. Does it bother you from a spiritual standpoint that the "cross" Constantine saw was an Egyptian ankh??

There is NO rapture!!!

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