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There is no logical argument to support ATHEISM

Subduction Zone

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May I remind you that you were the one who asked 'why posit a God in the first place'?

One puts forward a solution to the problem. Unless you are of the opinion that things 'just are', then there is a viable reason for making any suggestion. Kalam just does away with the infinite egress.
And you brought up an incorrect version of the Kalam. You did not specify WLC's failed version of the argument.

All that the Kalam states is that there was a cause for the universe. Which brings us back to my question: Why posit a God?

Kalam cosmological argument - Wikipedia
 
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HitchSlap

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Not really, but the same reasoning applies - why suggest multiple turtles when one will do.... But then you have got have a lot of evidence for an infinite turtle.

You could equally reply by saying 'multiverses'.
More evidence is required for turtles than a god?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Is it, well I'm glad to hear it. Though one might ask why more evidence is required for one thing than another.
Good question. For events that happen every day little evidence is needed. "I bought a puppy" is unlikely to be challenged. I have a dragon in my garage is apt to be challenged.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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And you brought up an incorrect version of the Kalam. You did not specify WLC's failed version of the argument.

All that the Kalam states is that there was a cause for the universe. Which brings us back to my question: Why posit a God?

Kalam cosmological argument - Wikipedia
Why not. There is a cause, God is a far better candidate than the Flying Spaghetti Monster, a turtle or the multiverse.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Good question. For events that happen every day little evidence is needed. "I bought a puppy" is unlikely to be challenged. I have a dragon in my garage is apt to be challenged.
I'm pretty certain that the universe popping into existence is not an everyday occurrence. So why is more evidence required for turtles than a God?
 
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HitchSlap

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I'm pretty certain that the universe popping into existence is not an everyday occurrence. So why is more evidence required for turtles than a God?
How do you know it's not an everyday occurrence? And assuming a god as a reason only complicates the issue. Now you have two mysteries, and of the two, only one we know for sure exists.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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How do you know it's not an everyday occurrence? And assuming a god as a reason only complicates the issue. Now you have two mysteries, and of the two, only one we know for sure exists.
That really made me laugh. Assuming a god as a reason complicates the issue, but universes popping into existence every day does not?
 
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HitchSlap

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That really made me laugh. Assuming a god as a reason complicates the issue, but universes popping into existence every day does not?
Well, we have evidence of at least one universe popping into existence. So it seems we both agree reality exists, yet disagree on the existence of your god. Who's laughing now?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Why not. There is a cause, God is a far better candidate than the Flying Spaghetti Monster, a turtle or the multiverse.
Why would you think that? The FSM at least is morally consistent. And as we all know, the Discworld is on top of four elephants (there used to be five) that stand on the back of a giant turtle. If you have nothing better than a special pleading fallacy then your beliefs are in second place at best.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I'm pretty certain that the universe popping into existence is not an everyday occurrence. So why is more evidence required for turtles than a God?
Your reasoning appears to be off again. I never brought up turtles myself. I did not propose a mechanism. We know that the universe exists, as @HitchSlap pointed out. No one can seem to find any reliable evidence for a God. And claiming that a God exists is quite the tall claim.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Your reasoning appears to be off again. I never brought up turtles myself. I did not propose a mechanism. We know that the universe exists, as @HitchSlap pointed out. No one can seem to find any reliable evidence for a God. And claiming that a God exists is quite the tall claim.
As is a claiming that a multiverse exists or existed.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Why would you think that? The FSM at least is morally consistent. And as we all know, the Discworld is on top of four elephants (there used to be five) that stand on the back of a giant turtle. If you have nothing better than a special pleading fallacy then your beliefs are in second place at best.
As I recall there were multiple turtles also (doesn't the second book have the turtle go to the breeding grounds?). Also Carrott proved that there was a Turtle by standing on it an gazing at the elephants!

Regardless, what is 'the special pleading fallacy' here?
 
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Subduction Zone

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As is a claiming that a multiverse exists or existed.
Which I never claimed. Nor mentioned. Physicists may have some weak evidence for the concept, but I would say that the concept does not even qualify as hypothetical yet. Why bring up this red herring?
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Well, we have evidence of at least one universe popping into existence. So it seems we both agree reality exists, yet disagree on the existence of your god. Who's laughing now?
I'm not sure the point you are making here. After all there are going to be lots of things we disagree on (humour is clearly one of them). Disagreement is not making one view true and the other untrue, it is just disagreement.
 
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Subduction Zone

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As I recall there were multiple turtles also (doesn't the second book have the turtle go to the breeding grounds?). Also Carrott proved that there was a Turtle by standing on it an gazing at the elephants!

Regardless, what is 'the special pleading fallacy' here?
No, the turtle was (is?) the Great A'Tuin, though I remember at least one character using the phrase "Turtles all the way down".

Great A'Tuin - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Which I never claimed. Nor mentioned. Physicists may have some weak evidence for the concept, but I would say that the concept does not even qualify as hypothetical yet. Why bring up this red herring?
It's not a red herring, I seem to recall that I started by responding to the 'if God made the universe, who made God comment' and this resulted in a 'turtles' response. So I pointed out that the 'turtles' response is no different from the multiverse response in that they both posit an infinite egress.

If you are responding to my response to someone's response to my response to someone who brought up the subject, it is not surprising that it is getting a little confusing :)
 
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HitchSlap

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I'm not sure the point you are making here. After all there are going to be lots of things we disagree on (humour is clearly one of them). Disagreement is not making one view true and the other untrue, it is just disagreement.
We both agree reality exists. We disagree that god/s exist. Why do you think this is?
 
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