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I am talking about the final judgment when after God brings them back to life, and afterward He kills them. That,s according to scripture.Not until after the 1000yrs
Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead ones not live until should-be-being-finished the thousands years, this the resurrection, the first.
What is the "abyss" in your view?I am talking about the final judgment when after God brings them back to life, and afterward He kills them. That,s according to scripture.
Yes, well, that is the opinion of the Theologians. How can there be life in Hell after God kills them? The words life and death or living and dead are opposites. Do you believe that they will come back alive after God kills them?
The word Abyss means: Deep Unknown. Some say: Bottomless Pit. Since there is no such thing as a bottomless pit, then my answer would be best.What is the "abyss" in your view?
Reve 11:7 And whenever they should be finishing the testimony of them, the beast, the one ascending out of the Abyss/abussou <12>, shall be doing with them battle, and shall be conquering them, and he shall be killing them,
Textus Rec.) Revelation 11:7 kai otan teleswsin thn marturian autwn to qhrion to anabainon ek thV abussou poihsei polemon met autwn kai nikhsei autouV kai apo-ktenei autouV
Revelation 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Revelation 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Revelation 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 20:1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Before any judgment can be made, every side must present their best persuasion... aka two witnesses1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Deuteronomy 17:6
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Revelation 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Judgment of living must be made before second coming..Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Revelation 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Plaques fall on the wickedDaniel 7:10
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Malachi 3:2
But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
John 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1 Thessalonians 2:19
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 19:9
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
all the tears are washed away.1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
City of God returns with all the saints in it.John 16:21
A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
After the thousand years are over, the rest of the dead are raised.Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Fire burns up the whole earth and all the wicked ...Revelation 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
City of God is like an ark.. on the lake of fire.. and the wicked are consumedRevelation 20:9
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
. Satan is consumed to ashes...Psalm 104:35
Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD
Ezekiel 28:18
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Now we watch God create a new heaven and a new earth.2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
2 Peter 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Those verses refer to the wicked, not Satan. Satan and his angels will be bound for eternity, for they cannot die.There is an end for Satan.. When it is all said and done... Satan will be nothing but ashes....
Ezekiel 28:18
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Malachi 4:3
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 Peter 2:6
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
Of course, it's quite simple....41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
Can you explain that one??
Words that mean hell:
Perish,
torment
eternal fire
weeping gnashing teeth
Worm never dies
Second death
Die
Unquenchable fire
Torment
Abyss
chains
punishment
Judgement
condemned
darkness
outside the wailing and moaning
perish
etc etc etc
I also am stifling a laugh, watching how you souls sleep/SDA types literalize Ecclesiates and the figurative language of the Psalmists, neither of whom had a concept of heaven or hell as JESUS taught- yet brush off His very words:I'm trying hard not to laugh, but it's not easy!
BTW, you forgot to add Slience to your list.
Psalm 115:17 (New International Version)
17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD,
those who go down to silence;
I guess the tortured must all go deaf, so they don't hear each others wailing and gnashing of teeth!
Soul sleep is an absurdity, and the phrase is unbiblical... Man is a soul.I also am stifling a laugh, watching how you souls sleep/.
I see that all of your studying is starting to pay off. When a person has studied long and hard they can begin to assemble the puzzle. Keep in mind though, that many things are written in parables. Always be ready to reject any misconceptions you may have. Truth is narrowly defined.Any contradiction in scripture suggest that there is a problem to be solved.Let's put things in order..
Truer words have not been spoken...and then you go on to contend that the soul (man) sleeps.Soul sleep is an absurdity
And in a very telling manner, you toss out a bunch of scripture snippets, interpreted- yet sidestep the very scriptures I posted. Quite telling, really., and the phrase is unbiblical... Man is a soul.
John 11:11-14
An "absurdity" in the interpretation. You have not simply posted Paul's words, but interpreted. My scriptures spoke for themselves, yours require contextualization and interpretation. Net example of same...“We that are alive that are left unto the coming of the Lord
Shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep
…for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
With the voice of the archangel
And with the trump of God
And the dead in Christ shall rise first
1 Thess 4:15-16
Meaning all the dead are asleep till the second coming
What about the thief on the cross?
Arguing over punctuation. Reminds me of the JWs and their "a God" reinterpretation of John 1:1.And he said unto Jesus,
Lord, remember me when thou comest into they kingdom
And Jesus said unto him
Verily I say unto thee
Today shalt thou be with me in paradise”
Luke 23:43.
Common Misunderstanding:
Jesus told the thief on the cross
They would both be in heaven on the same day
Cause of misunderstanding:
Placement of comma
True Explanation:
Placement of comma after "today"
CONFIRMATION
Another hole in your theory.“Jesus saieth unto her…”touch me not
For I am not yet ascended to my father
But go to my brethren
And say unto them
I ascend unto my father
And your father
And to my God and your GodJohn 20:17
Two days after Christ’s death
He told Mary he had not yet ascended
To His father in heaven.
This means Christ could not have been in Paradise
The day of His death and the thief on the cross
Is sleeping now, just like all the dead.
But isn’t it truth that all God’s children go to heaven?
Answer:
Yes, but not before the second coming
“Men and brethren let me freely speak to you
Of the patriarch David that he is both dead and buried
And his sepulchre is with us unto this day
Acts2:29
“For David is not ascended into heaven”Acts2:34
So all the dead are still asleep in their graves
And are unaware of what is going on around them.
“so man lieth down and riseth not
Yeah, except after the Resurrection (reference Matt 27). Man riseth then, now didn't he (they).till the heavens be no more
they shall not awake or be raised out of their sleep….
….his sons come to honour and he knoweth it not
and they are brought low but he perceiveth it not of them
Christ tells us
Job 12:12,21
“so man lieth down and riseth not
till the heavens be no more
Job 14:12
The day of the Lord shall come
in the which the heavens and earth shall pass away2 Peter 3:10
The heavens are still here
And so is the dead.
Speaking of the Last Day, of course. Text without context is a pretext. Beware the proof-texter.“Behold I come quickly
And my reward is with me
To give every man according as his work shall be
The Lord himself shall descend from heaven
With a shout…and the dead in Christ shall rise…
And so shall we ever be with the Lord
1 Thess 4:16-17
“we shall all be changed in a moment
in the twinkling of an eye
And the dead shall be raised incorruptible
For this corruptible must put on incorruptible
And this mortal must put on immortality
1 cor 15:51-53
And where does "a spirit" go? Was Jesus preaching to the breath of those who once disobeyed?A soul consist of both body and spirit. A body without a spirit is a dead body, and no longer a soul.
The Elect spirits return to Yahwah, and the condemned are killed.And where does "a spirit" go? Was Jesus preaching to the breath of those who once disobeyed?
Uh huh.
Interesting theory- is this right after the eternal punishment?The Elect spirits return to Yahwah, and the condemned are killed.
John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father.
John 20:17
Yahshua said, Do not cling to me, for I have yet to return to the Father.
I also am stifling a laugh, watching how you souls sleep/SDA types literalize Ecclesiates and the figurative language of the Psalmists, neither of whom had a concept of heaven or hell as JESUS taught- yet brush off His very words:
Maybe you and Gary can get together and get your story straight- seems neither of you wants to touch the scriptures I've quoted and briefly exegeted.Luke 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Now, even if one takes this passage as a parable, or an allegory, one must ask oneself "was Jesus misleading us regarding the state of the person after death?" Now, why would He not say "You know, after death, there REALLY is only silence, so don't take Me wrong here."
But He doesn't. Was He then a purveyor of confusing myths? No, rather, you and yours are. Heaven and Hell are very real, and the One who loves us made it very clear what Way it is that leads to life.
2 Cr 5:8
We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Yet another purveyor of myths, Paul the Apostle.
/stifled laugh.
What blessed hope we have, knowing that obeying His commands- something you Sabbatarians seem big on (re. one of His commands)-
leads to eternal life. Unfortunately, disobeying leads to everlasting punishment and eternal darkness.
Matt 25:6
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment (kolasin aionion): but the righteous into life eternal.
The expression kolasin ainion is found in both Textus Receptus and the Morphological Greek NT. Interesting, the persistnce of this very clear Greek rendering.
kolasis- correction, punishment, penalty
aionios-
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
The precise word is used in relationship to eternal life and eternal punishment. That the two are juxtaposed in one verse makes it very clear that, unless you think eternal life (aionion zoin) is not in fact eternal, the punishment is eternal. And one might ask, who are what are being punished- a body, or a soul (perhaps also with a soul).
I do not know about Gary, but I am tired of repeating myself. If you guys would stop dodging the issues, then perhaps we could all move on.Interesting theory- is this right after the eternal punishment?
Maybe you and Gary can get together and get your story straight- seems neither of you wants to touch the scriptures I've quoted and lightly exegeted.
You do realise that those who one disobeyed, are the fallen angels... demons.... evil spirits... not the souls of dead humans.And where does "a spirit" go? Was Jesus preaching to the breath of those who once disobeyed?
Uh huh.
The spirit of all men return to God at death....The Elect spirits return to Yahwah, and the condemned are killed.
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