Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I view it as the OC Jewish Temple/Sanctuary passing away.and how do you view it LLOJ (long time no see btw)
and how do you view it LLOJ (long time no see btw)
no, they did what they were supposed to do. it was the way it was meant to be. it was and is a part of His perfect plan. saying it was anything else is denying that without it, there would be no cross and no salvation for anyone, ever.
you didn't read Genesis yet did you?
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades (The Grave) were thrown into the lake of fire (Judgment). The lake of fire (Judgment) is the second death.
All legitimate parables are identified as such. They use common every day, events, known and understood by Jesus' audience, to explain or clarify unclear Biblical truths. Since the most ancient times shepherds have lost sheep, people have lost coins, and found them. Sons have squandered their father's money and returned home in shame, etc. Jesus could legitimately use anonymous people and events as parabolic illustrations.
Unlike the legitimate parables, in this story Jesus identifies two people by name, Lazarus and an actual historical person, Abraham. Jesus quotes the rich man as addressing him, as father Abraham. If Abraham was not in that specific place, and did not speak the words that Jesus quoted, then Jesus was lying.
Unlike the legitimate parables, which use common ordinary everyday events, the story of Lazarus and the rich man uses death and post death events, something entirely unknown to his audience and even to people today. Nobody knows, or has ever known, exactly what happens, immediately after death. Jesus never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in all legitimate parables. Were one to search online you would find dozens of "explanations" of what the "parable really means."
Some argue that "hell," as a place of eternal punishment, is a pagan belief imagined in scripture by modern scholars, etc. Why would Jesus use nonexistent, imaginary, easily misunderstood, pagan appearing events to illustrate some Biblical teaching which he never explains?
Still ignoring the context of this verse trying to prove your assumptions/presuppositions. This is NOT speaking of the condition of the dead but things in this lifetime, "under the sun."
[SIZE=-1]The Hebrew word "SHEOL" translated into English is "GRAVE." The word "GRAVE" is a TRANSLATION and the word "HELL" is an INTERPRETATION." Why would an Omnipotent God have any need or desire to torture living being for all eternity. That does not make sense to even a human being. If the punishment for sin is death, then how is it that there is life in hell. Hell is from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The opening poster is correct in his citings. Death and "hell" are in fact tossed into the infamous LAKE where 'those' things will find their PERMANENT ENDING.
There is however not one single named person in the entirety of the scriptures stated to be heading to that Lake NOR is there a single named person ever threatened with such a fate.
The devil and his messengers are stated specifically to be heading for the Lake of Fire and that is HELL for THEM...
And since these 'entities' are found WITH mankind it is not hard to divide which scriptures are for WHOM if you see that FACT of them with your fellow man. Jesus showed us this FACT on nearly every page of the N.T. and that fact is also a CLUE as to why the RICH MAN in the parable DIDN'T HAVE A NAME...
There are strangers with mankind that Jesus does not know, nor has He ever. And they are NOT your fellow man whom Jesus commanded us to LOVE.[/SIZE]
I have seen you produce NO, NONE ZERO evidence for anything. You just keep repeating your assumptions/presuppositions over and over. Multiple repetition does NOT make them any more valid. And as you have done in every post you ignore my post and do NOT address a single thing in it. I'm sure you sincerely believe everything you say, but so do the Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.
You claim that the concept of a fiery place of eternal punishment is "from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism." If you are correct, why would Jesus use something like that to illustrate a Bible truth? If the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, where is the scriptural evidence for the purpose of the parable? Where does Jesus explain it? Can you show me any evidence, not what you believe in your heart?
where do you find in the bible "salvation pre christ"... besides the LawI don't need to read Genesis for this conversation far as I can tell
it IS part of his perfect plan but those who choose to live by the law and don't uphold it perfectly also die by the law and are judged by the law
those who were saved pre-christ were looking beyond the law...they understood god was going to erase their sins in the future
Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thingto kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
[SIZE=-1]There are 3 hells.
1) "Hades" simply means "pit" or "grave."
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 and verse 10 say this about this "hell." For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; There is no thought process once you are dead. You will have to be resurrected before you can think again.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2) "Gehenna" is a place of punishment. This is the "Lake of Fire." This too is referred to as "hell."
Since Ro.6:23 says For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And Ezek.18:4, 20 say Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
[SIZE=-1]We should see what happens to these in this "Gehenna." Malachi 4:1 say For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up, That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,Says the LORD of hosts.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]This is the second death, from which there is no chance of life again. It will be as if they were never born. They will not live in hell being tortured forever. They will not live anywhere ever again.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]3) There is one more "Tartaroo" it is only used once in the Bible. In 2Pet.2:4. This one refers to a place where Satan and his demons will be restrained forever. This is the only one that lasts forever. This is never applied to people.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]hell is not tossed into the lake of fire HADES is
hades is another word for sheol which is the current bode of the dead
it will be destroyed after judgment[/SIZE]
I have seen you produce NO, NONE ZERO evidence for anything. You just keep repeating your assumptions/presuppositions over and over. Multiple repetition does NOT make them any more valid. And as you have done in every post you ignore my post and do NOT address a single thing in it. I'm sure you sincerely believe everything you say, but so do the Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.
You claim that the concept of a fiery place of eternal punishment is "from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism." If you are correct, why would Jesus use something like that to illustrate a Bible truth? If the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, where is the scriptural evidence for the purpose of the parable? Where does Jesus explain it? Can you show me any evidence, not what you believe in your heart?
Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thingto kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
Yes, I know that it is always the same story. But it,s for the needle in the haystack. Just ignore him. Well maybe he missed the commentary on Tartaroo. I don't know. Let,s take a break!I knew I shouldn't have thrown that string of pearls down there.
Hades, and sheol, which according to scripture which you conveniently ignore, are more than a hole in the ground where people are buried. You also conveniently ignore that death along with Hades is thrown into the LOF. Death is the punctiliar cessation of life, it has no physical properties therefore cannot be thrown anywhere but the angel of death and the demon of hades are sentient beings with power to kill, and can be and are thrown into the LOF.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?