There is no evidence that Moses ever went to Egypt

[jeffweeder]

http://www.exoduscase.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

 

[FallingWaters]

I've been reading more. It looks like this is a rather inexact science. I found a site who claims that Senmut could have been Solomon instead of Moses! I wouldn't be surprised if a skeptic shows up and shoots holes all through it.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

or that Jesus ever lived. how do we explain the lack of archaelogical evidence for things that say happened in the bible

Hey have you seen the book "evidence that demands a verdict" by josh mcdowell? or the "case for christ" by lee stroble.

 

[FallingWaters]

I have the McDowell book. I liked it.

 

[TheWakeUpCaller]

Well bloke, I don't much care whether or not I am doing myself any favors. There is abundant evidence that Moses was in Egypt. He says he was, as is further confirmed by numerous other biblical writers, including Jesus himself, as well as Stehpen (Acts 7) and Paul (Hebrews 11). There is your evidence. God's word is true. For Christians that settles the matter. Case closed. Yet there are many, and apparently you are among them, who chose NOT to believe the Scriptures.
I truely do not care whether you believe me or not. This is what the Scripture declares. This is a Christian Forum and here we believe in the Scriptures.
There is also gravity, and Abraham Lincoln was a president of the United States also. That will be true 2000 years from now as well, regardless of whether future archaeologists can find any evidence of his existence or not. My father exisits and existed also, regardless of the fact that our printed family history declares that he died without issue. His six children are here and so also are his dozens of grandchildren and great grandchildren. And this will be true also 2000 years from now whether would be factualist can find "evidence" or not. 1 billion Christians world-wide, regardless of their level of faith are further testimony that the root of our faith was here and lived on this planet and that He is now living in a glorified body as he said in Scripture.
That you "will not to believe" does not change that reality. There is gravity whether you believe it or not. You are leaping off the tall building hoping there is not, I have opted to NOT leap off the building believing there is gravity. If you are wrong it will cost you dearly.

This was an excellent post! I will never understand some people. Give me evidence they cry. ok . Here it is. Give me more evidence I do not like this, it is not reliable, it makes too much sense. Let us argue (reason) together.

Why is it that the people that call themselves christians are the ones destroying God's Word?
Words are powerful, I would caution those of you that would turn people away from God, just trying to prove how smart you think you are. What is the point?
I look at this post, and I see all kinds of proofs, evidence, or whatever you may choose to call it. Thank you so much for posting this......michael

 

[TheWakeUpCaller]

Hey have you seen the book "evidence that demands a verdict" by josh mcdowell? or the "case for christ" by lee stroble.

I have and it is excellent.

 

[artybloke]

Josh MacDowell has all the academic clout of a pea. What he says depends on so many unfounded presuppositions its not worth the paper it's written on. I don't know of a single reputable old testament scholar who would take him seriously, including most of the more conservative ones.

He says he was

Moses says he was? How? He didn't write anything down. The stories about Moses were collected several centuries after he died (if he existed.)

Stephen & Paul were not exactly contemporary to Moses either, and neither was Jesus, so again, not evidence. Evidence would include documentary evidence from the time of Moses, not hearsay evidence from 1000 years later.

This is a Christian Forum and here we believe in the Scriptures

This is a Christian forum and here we believe in Christ. We don't put a 2000 years collection of spiritual writings on to a pedestal and worship that. If you wish to question my Christianity because I refuse to make an idol of a book, that's your right I suppose.

Personally, I really don't care if the truths of the Moses stories are factual or fictional. It doesn't matter to me if Moses existed or didn't.

 

[TheWakeUpCaller]

Josh MacDowell has all the academic clout of a pea. What he says depends on so many unfounded presuppositions its not worth the paper it's written on. I don't know of a single reputable old testament scholar who would take him seriously, including most of the more conservative ones.

I bet you were educated in a good old liberal school. Am I right?

Moses says he was? How? He didn't write anything down. The stories about Moses were collected several centuries after he died (if he existed.)

Do you exist? Is my mind playing tricks on me?

Stephen & Paul were not exactly contemporary to Moses either, and neither was Jesus, so again, not evidence. Evidence would include documentary evidence from the time of Moses, not hearsay evidence from 1000 years later.

This is a Christian forum and here we believe in Christ. We don't put a 2000 years collection of spiritual writings on to a pedestal and worship that. If you wish to question my Christianity because I refuse to make an idol of a book, that's your right I suppose.

That is not why I would question it? I think its more of an attitude.

Personally, I really don't care if the truths of the Moses stories are factual or fictional. It doesn't matter to me if Moses existed or didn't.

Really, you sure must, you are about to have a cow over this issue. Mooooooo! .. michael

 

[TheWakeUpCaller]

http://www.exoduscase.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

wow! I just looked at this. AMAZING. Thank you so much for your post. You guys might wanna click on his link. michael

 

[imind]

I bet you were educated in a good old liberal school. Am I right?

pfft. poisoning the well, are we?

weak arguement.

 

[TheWakeUpCaller]

Thank you for making my point for me. It is a fact that most colleges have liberal teachers.

 

[imind]

Thank you for making my point for me.

i didn't, but your welcome.

It is a fact that most colleges have liberal teachers.

what does that have to do with mcdowells credibility? you've presented a logical fallacy.

 

[artybloke]

I bet you were educated in a good old liberal school. Am I right?

I was educated in a university where they taught me how to think, rather than just accept the first convincing-sounding rubbish that comes along. If that counts as liberal these days, then guilty as charged.

Do you exist? Is my mind playing tricks on me?

I might not exist, there's no guarantee. There is, however, a certain amount of contemporaneous evidence that I do. Documents with my name on, photographs, etc etc...

There is none of this for Moses. There are stories about him written down along time after they were supposed to occur, probably passed down from oral tradition. Oral tradition is notoriously fickle when it comes to sticking to facts: it embellishes, it invents, it wants to give its hearers a good story. There's not even any evidence that the Hebrews were slaves of the Pharoahs.

Does this mean it's not true? Lack of evidence doesn't constitute proof of non-existence. Oral stories often have a grain of fact in them; so it's possible there was a real person on whom the stories are based.

Then of course, there are the truths that the stories are meant to teach. That's what's important about Moses; not the fact of his existence; and that's what remains.

 

[jeffweeder]

There is none of this for Moses. There are stories about him written down along time after they were supposed to occur, probably passed down from oral tradition. Oral tradition is notoriously fickle when it comes to sticking to facts: it embellishes, it invents, it wants to give its hearers a good story. There's not even any evidence that the Hebrews were slaves of the Pharoahs.

even if it was oral tradition, the lengths of their lifes, eliminates the problems.
I believe they did keep records, as this is documented and alluded to ;
4 This[2][Lit These are the generations ] is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam;
These are the records of the generations of Noah;

1 Now these are the records of the generations of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah; and sons were born to them after the flood.
These are the records of the generations of Shem. Shem was one hundred years old, and became[10][Lit begot, and so throughout the ch] the father of Arpachshad two years after the flood;

12 Now these are the records of the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son
19 Now these are the records of the generations of Isaac
Now it shall come about when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, he shall write for himself a copy of this law on a scroll in[15][Lit from before ] the presence of the Levitical priests.
19 "It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, by[16][Lit to keep to do them ] carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes,
20 that his heart may not be lifted up above his countrymen[17][Lit brothers ] and that he may not turn aside from the commandment, to the right or the left, so that he and his sons may continue long in his kingdom in the midst of Israel.


24 It came about, when Moses finished writing the words of this law in a book until they were complete,


26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God; and he took a large stone and set it up there under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.
27 Joshua said to all the people, "Behold, this stone shall be for a witness against us, for it has heard all the words of the LORD which He spoke to[12][Lit with ] us; thus it shall be for a witness against you, so that you do not deny your God."
28 Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance.


25 Then Samuel told the people the ordinances of the kingdom, and wrote them in the book and placed it before the LORD. And Samuel sent all the people away, each one to his house.

The Lost Book
8 Then Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the scribe, "I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD." And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan who read it.
9 Shaphan the scribe came to the king and brought back word to the king and said, "Your servants have emptied out the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hand of the workmen who have the oversight of the house of the LORD."
10 Moreover, Shaphan the scribe told the king saying, "Hilkiah the priest has given me a book." And Shaphan read it in the presence of the king.
11 When the king heard the words of the book of the law, he tore his clothes.
12 Then the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam the son of Shaphan, Achbor[3][In 2 Chr 34:20, Abdon, son of Micah ] the son of Micaiah, Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah the king's servant saying,
13 "Go, inquire of the LORD for me and the people and all Judah concerning the words of this book that has been found, for great is the wrath of the LORD that burns against us, because our fathers have not listened to the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us."

Prophets wrote in a book---jer36:32 ; zech 1:4; 7:7-12

ez7:6; neh 8:5

 

[artybloke]

I believe they did keep records, as this is documented and alluded to ;

What they called records and what we call records are not necessarily the same thing.

As for this:

8 Then Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the scribe, "I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD."

Since when have professionally religious folk not claimed that their newly invented laws to keep the plebs in their place and themselves in their jobs were actually "discovered?" Reminds me of Joseph Smith "finding" the Book of Mormon, frankly.

 

[jeffweeder]

Paul
19 "So, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
21 "For this reason some Jews seized me in the temple and tried to put me to death.
22 "So, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going to take place;
23 that the[13][I.e. the Messiah] Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles."

Jesus;
LK 24
"These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
45 Then He opened their minds[18][Lit mind ] to understand the Scriptures, -(understand the mystery)
46 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 "You are witnesses of these things.
49 "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."



Both thought very highly of the book.

 

[FallingWaters]

I might not exist, there's no guarantee.

You only THINK you exist.

 

[TheWakeUpCaller]

haha.. I think therefore I am.... Who said that? ...michael

 

[artybloke]

I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam.

 

[FallingWaters]

haha.. I think therefore I am.... Who said that? ...michael

the 17th century, the French philosopher René Descartes