Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
No baloney. There are two creations and two Adam's. It's in Genesis 1-5. One Adam is made from the dust of the earth and second in the likeness of God.
Who are you talking to?Your opinion. The sixth day is part of a recreation not the original creation.
What makes you so sure there is only one creation and it is a literal 7 days? You really have one chapter in the Book of Genesis to base this off of and issues with it. For example, Genesis 1:28. They are told to replenish the earth the same way Noah (Genesis 9:1) was after the flood. What are they replenishing the earth from in Genesis 1:28 if there is only one creation.
It makes perfect sense to me. They are replenishing the earth from the destruction first creation.
I notice you are not being specific. Just vague and generalized. "Just read five chapters, and you'll see what I mean."... can I borrow your eyes and your brain, then?
Put it out in detail. Exact chapters and verses. I also realize... You may have commented on this already in some previous post., But, why not then tells us to look through all the posts to find it?
Come on. Cards on the table. Please.
Start with 197...Please see post 197, 204, and 209 for specific details and my creation perspective.
There are two creations in the Bible however I argue they are backwards in order.
There are two creations in the Bible however I argue they are backwards in order.
To see this you have to start with Genesis 10:31 and the move to Genesis 11:1 and ask yourself, what is wrong with this picture? There is nothing wrong and no contradiction it's just that events in Genesis are neccesarily written in Chronological order.
The point is that Genesis isnt necessarily written in chronological order. Genesis 10:31 says that there are multiple language while 11:1 says the whole earth has one language.Start with 197...
You do not explain why it is so as you claim. Its not self evident as you seem to presume.
Genesis 10:31
These were the sons of Shem, according to their families,
according to their languages, in their lands, according to
their nations.
Genesis 11:1
And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
Now,... please, start making your point with those two verses. How do they fit in?
The point is that Genesis isnt necessarily written in chronological order. Genesis 10:31 says that there are multiple language while 11:1 says the whole earth has one language.
Since that is the case it's not wrong to say the first few chapters could be written the same way. They are not necessarily written in chronological order. I say the first creation, Eden consist of the following verses and chapters.
Genesis 1:1, Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:26.
The genealogies of Chapter 4 are the genealogies of the first creation. In chapter 3 they are told to eat of the tree of life and leave the garden. Notice that the individuals in chapter 4 for have no ages.
The second creation consist of Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3 and Genesis 5.
The geneology in chapter 5 are the ones in the second creation, the most recent one. That is why when you look at geneology at other places in the Bible these are the ones listed.
The point is that Genesis isnt necessarily written in chronological order. Genesis 10:31 says that there are multiple language while 11:1 says the whole earth has one language.
Since that is the case it's not wrong to say the first few chapters could be written the same way. They are not necessarily written in chronological order. I say the first creation, Eden consist of the following verses and chapters.
Genesis 1:1, Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:26.
The genealogies of Chapter 4 are the genealogies of the first creation. In chapter 3 they are told to eat of the tree of life and leave the garden. Notice that the individuals in chapter 4 for have no ages.
The second creation consist of Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3 and Genesis 5.
The geneology in chapter 5 are the ones in the second creation, the most recent one. That is why when you look at geneology at other places in the Bible these are the ones listed.
If someone could sit you down and show you how the Hebrew of Genesis One and Two contain Hebrew words with different meanings, but often times blurred when translated into English. You will see that Genesis One speaks of one phase of creation = what God saw. With Chapter Two = with what we would be able to see.
Chapter One did not have Adam and the woman in physical bodies yet. For what was created "male and female" was created *out from nothing.* Not from the elements of the earth.
Chapter Two uses entirely different Hebrew. For Adam's LIFELESS body was not created out from nothing. Rather, it says that the body was 'molded and formed' out from the earth that had been created out from nothing.
What was breathed into that lifeless body to make it a living soul? That soul was created out from nothing in Genesis One. Its the soul that was created in the Image of God. Souls awaiting a body to be provided in Chapter Two.
In Chapter Two we no longer see Hebrew words words to indicate anything being created out from nothing. Matter of fact. It says God rested from that kind of creating. But, rather we see the Lord working with what had been created out from nothing in Chapter One.
I realize that you think you are onto something... Don't make the mistake of seeking your own fame and being blind to correction. For, God will burn up all wood, hay and stubble.
Chapter One - we see "BARA." To create something out from nothing.
Chapter Two begins by declaring that God now was resting from doing anymore BARA. We see no more BARA taking place in Chapter Two. For God rested ....
The body for Adam was not BARA. It was molded and formed -JATSAR- like a work of art in the Lord's hands. Molded and formed from the earth that we were shown was created out from nothing - BARA in Chapter One.
grace and peace.....
I spent time looking at the use of BARA and YATSAR and thier usage. I see BARA used clearly Genesis 1:1. I also see it used when referring to something being made directly from God as in man in chapter 1 and chapter 5. This makes perfect sense. I also see YATSAR being used when God is creating directly from the earth.
To assume man was created on earth in a non physical form seems a lot like theosophy to me.
The use of the words does really change my position it only strengthens it and to know Jewish writers commonly starts with a conclusion and works backwards has strengthened it too.
This really doesnt change anything and it shows me how people like to fill in the blanks to make something fit what they think.
I spent time looking at the use of BARA and YATSAR and thier usage. I see BARA used clearly Genesis 1:1. I also see it used when referring to something being made directly from God as in man in chapter 1 and chapter 5. This makes perfect sense. I also see YATSAR being used when God is creating directly from the earth.
Jatsar is not creating, though the Lord was being creative mentally when performing it. To mold and form (jatasar) a clay model is not the same thing as producing that same clay out from nothing (bara).
There were no two creations. Just two different actions taken to get this creation to where it now is..Exactly. I should have used the term shape instead. I spoke wrong.
Chapter One did not have Adam and the woman in physical bodies yet. For what was created "male and female" was created *out from nothing.* Not from the elements of the earth.
Chapter Two uses entirely different Hebrew. For Adam's LIFELESS body was not created out from nothing. Rather, it says that the body was 'molded and formed' out from the earth that had been created out from nothing.
No. Two very distinct things going and the order things in each are very different.There were no two creations. Just two different actions taken to get this creation to where it now is..
The problem I have this is the use of BARA. We really only see it 1:1 and on over in 2. That what I said really to start with. I said this happened first and is the first creation. You assume that BARA is used all through chapter 1 but it isnt.
As far as getting that man was made spiritual and existed in that form until God made us physical isnt really in there.
Of course.No. Two very distinct things going and the order things in each are very different.
I spent time looking at the use of BARA and YATSAR and thier usage. I see BARA used clearly Genesis 1:1. I also see it used when referring to something being made directly from God as in man in chapter 1 and chapter 5. This makes perfect sense. I also see YATSAR being used when God is creating directly from the earth.
To assume man was created on earth in a non physical form seems a lot like theosophy to me.
The use of the words does really change my position it only strengthens it and to know Jewish writers commonly starts with a conclusion and works backwards has strengthened it too.
This really doesnt change anything and it shows me how people like to fill in the blanks to make something fit what they think.
You have no concept of the Jewish way of thinking nor of how they write and are pretending you do. You very obviously do not or you would not be saying this junk. You are free to think Donald Duck is God but don't expect those who know better to believe your nonsense. You've already been told that there were no verses noir chapters in the original Hebrew and yu0u continue to divide things according to verses instead of as a running narrative. Verses and chapters are not a Hebrew thing, they were put in for easier reading. Genesis 1&2 are not separate chapters, it is one long narrative, The first part of which is the chronological order of creation ---that shows how days came into existence. The rest of the narrative just is going back to fill in the details of that creation. It is a normal way of writing for the Hebrew. You are the one that is filling in the blanks to make your theories work. They don't. And it is more than obvious.
___ That's why there are so many problems even within the church -people interpret scripture differently and atheist use it against the existence of God and say that the Bible contradicts itself.In the first creation story, Genesis 1, plants are created on the third day.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
Genesis 1:11-13 NIV
Still in the first creation story, God creates fish, sea creatures and birds on the fifth day.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
Genesis 1: 20-23 NIV
Then God creates land animals and an undetermined number of people on the sixth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.”
And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Genesis 1: 24-28 NIV
The second creation account starts in Genesis 2:4.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
Genesis 2:4 NIV
We are specifically told that there is "no shrub" and "no plant" when Adam, the first man, is created.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 2:5-7 NIV
The second creation story gives the impression that plants are made to make Adam comfortable. The tenses here are confusing and I'll say more about that later.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:8-9 NIV
In the first creation story, birds (and fish) are created before land animals while in the second creation story, land animals and birds are created at the same time. In the first story, plants and animals are created before people while in the second, Adam is created before plants and animals. Again, the creation of animals is related to Adam's comfort, since the text distinguishes between "livestock" and "wild animals." The creation of land animals and birds is closely connected with their presentation to Adam.
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
Genesis 2:19-20 NIV
God announces the intention to create Eve, to create the first woman, in verse 18. He does not actually do so until verses 21-23, after the creation and presentation of birds, livestock and wild animals.
18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
...
21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
Genesis 2:18-25 NIV
In summary, in the first creation story, God creates plants, then animals, then people. In the second creation story, God first creates the man, Adam, then plants, then animals, and then the woman, Eve. Each of these stories has its purpose but as literal story they can't be reconciled.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?