Dale

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In the first creation story, Genesis 1, plants are created on the third day.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
Genesis 1:11-13 NIV

Still in the first creation story, God creates fish, sea creatures and birds on the fifth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
Genesis 1: 20-23 NIV

Then God creates land animals and an undetermined number of people on the sixth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.”
And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Genesis 1: 24-28 NIV

The second creation account starts in Genesis 2:4.

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
Genesis 2:4 NIV

We are specifically told that there is "no shrub" and "no plant" when Adam, the first man, is created.

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 2:5-7 NIV

The second creation story gives the impression that plants are made to make Adam comfortable. The tenses here are confusing and I'll say more about that later.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:8-9 NIV

In the first creation story, birds (and fish) are created before land animals while in the second creation story, land animals and birds are created at the same time. In the first story, plants and animals are created before people while in the second, Adam is created before plants and animals. Again, the creation of animals is related to Adam's comfort, since the text distinguishes between "livestock" and "wild animals." The creation of land animals and birds is closely connected with their presentation to Adam.

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
Genesis 2:19-20 NIV

God announces the intention to create Eve, to create the first woman, in verse 18. He does not actually do so until verses 21-23, after the creation and presentation of birds, livestock and wild animals.

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
...
21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
Genesis 2:18-25 NIV


In summary, in the first creation story, God creates plants, then animals, then people. In the second creation story, God first creates the man, Adam, then plants, then animals, and then the woman, Eve. Each of these stories has its purpose but as literal story they can't be reconciled.
 

Dale

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The tenses seem inconsistent when we first read about growing plants in Genesis 2, in the NIV and also in the KJV.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden ...
9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground ...

The NIV gives the impression that God had already prepared Eden when Adam was created in verse eight. Then verse nine gives the impression that God is creating trees in the present.

In Young's Literal Translation, YLT, the second creation story opens:

4 These [are] births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens;
Genesis 2:4 YLT

The YLT agrees that there is as yet "no shrub" in the next verse:

5 and no shrub of the field is yet in the earth, and no herb of the field yet sprouteth, for Jehovah God hath not rained upon the earth, and a man there is not to serve the ground ...
Genesis 2:5 YLT

Again, we find this idea that making plants and animals goes with the creation of man, they are not independent. We come to the verses on creation of plant life which have confusing tenses in the NIV and KJV.

8 And Jehovah God planteth a garden in Eden, at the east, and He setteth there the man whom He hath formed;
9 and Jehovah God causeth to sprout from the ground every tree desirable for appearance, and good for food, and the tree of life in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:8-9 YLT

The YLT gives the planting in Eden, the placement of the man, Adam, and the sprouting of trees and edible plants all in the present tense.

In the NIV, the tenses are also confusing in the verse where God creates birds and land animals.

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 2:19 NIV

Consulting the YLT we find:

19 And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that [is] its name.
Genesis 2:19 YLT

Again, Young's Literal Translation gives the creation and presentation of "every fowl" and "every beast" in the present tense. There is no confusion of tenses in the YLT in the second creation story, and so no reason to believe that Eden already had plants when God breathed the breath of life into Adam.
 
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-57

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In the first creation story, Genesis 1, plants are created on the third day.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
Genesis 1:11-13 NIV

Still in the first creation story, God creates fish, sea creatures and birds on the fifth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
Genesis 1: 20-23 NIV

Then God creates land animals and an undetermined number of people on the sixth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.”
And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Genesis 1: 24-28 NIV

The second creation account starts in Genesis 2:4.

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
Genesis 2:4 NIV

We are specifically told that there is "no shrub" and "no plant" when Adam, the first man, is created.

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 2:5-7 NIV

The second creation story gives the impression that plants are made to make Adam comfortable. The tenses here are confusing and I'll say more about that later.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:8-9 NIV

In the first creation story, birds (and fish) are created before land animals while in the second creation story, land animals and birds are created at the same time. In the first story, plants and animals are created before people while in the second, Adam is created before plants and animals. Again, the creation of animals is related to Adam's comfort, since the text distinguishes between "livestock" and "wild animals." The creation of land animals and birds is closely connected with their presentation to Adam.

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
Genesis 2:19-20 NIV

God announces the intention to create Eve, to create the first woman, in verse 18. He does not actually do so until verses 21-23, after the creation and presentation of birds, livestock and wild animals.

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
...
21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
Genesis 2:18-25 NIV


In summary, in the first creation story, God creates plants, then animals, then people. In the second creation story, God first creates the man, Adam, then plants, then animals, and then the woman, Eve. Each of these stories has its purpose but as literal story they can't be reconciled.

God created plants twice. The first time was the creation of the plants outside of the garden. The second time was when God made the garden and placed Adam in it.

You said....In summary, in the first creation story, God creates plants, then animals, then people. In the second creation story, God first creates the man, Adam, then plants, then animals, and then the woman, Eve. Each of these stories has its purpose but as literal story they can't be reconciled.

Chapter 2 is an overview with the main focus on day 6.

Gen 2:19 says....19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.

The animals were made prior to Adam.
 
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ewq1938

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In summary, in the first creation story, God creates plants, then animals, then people. In the second creation story, God first creates the man, Adam, then plants, then animals, and then the woman, Eve. Each of these stories has its purpose but as literal story they can't be reconciled.

Also take note that there is no mention of fish being created in Gen 2 because fish were already created in Gen 1.

There's also where birds come from in the two accounts:

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.


This is the fifth day. God creates sealife and birds. Take note that fowls/birds are also created from the waters not from the ground. Think of fowls that are associated with water like ducks and seagulls etc.


Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Yet in Gen. 2 we are told about fowls/birds being created out of the ground, not out of the waters. Most people do not notice these differences when they read the accounts.
 
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ewq1938

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Gen 2:19 says....19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.

The animals were made prior to Adam.

Not according to the Hebrew.

The Hebrew manuscripts and proper translations say "formed" not "had formed"

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

This is a creating of animals after Adam was created. The fact that Adam was alone in the garden further proves this.

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.



The Aspect (or verb tense as we say in English) is in the imperfect which means it was not a completed action but one taking place currently in the verse so God indeed was creating animals out of the ground right there in front of Adam. The theory that it referred to past and completed creations falls apart according to Hebrew grammar.
 
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-57

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Not according to the Hebrew.

The Hebrew manuscripts and proper translations say "formed" not "had formed"

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

This is a creating of animals after Adam was created. The fact that Adam was alone in the garden further proves this.

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.



The Aspect (or verb tense as we say in English) is in the imperfect which means it was not a completed action but one taking place currently in the verse so God indeed was creating animals out of the ground right there in front of Adam. The theory that it referred to past and completed creations falls apart according to Hebrew grammar.
Adam being alone in the garden was about not having a helpmate...wife. If Adam was alone in the sense you speak of God wouldn't have been there.

I'm sticking with had formed. Especially considering it was a re-cap of what God had done for the most part pertaining to day 6.
 
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ewq1938

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Adam being alone in the garden was about not having a helpmate...wife.

No because God makes animals as helpmeets but they are not enough that Adam needs so God makes a woman after making the animals. The animals would help him tend the garden as helpmeets but a man needs a human helpmeet as well.

If Adam was alone in the sense you speak of God wouldn't have been there.

Yet God said he was alone so he was alone despite God being present.

I'm sticking with had formed.

Ok but just know that it doesn't appear in any Hebrew manuscript.
 
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-57

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No because God makes animals as helpmeets but they are not enough that Adam needs so God makes a woman after making the animals. The animals would help him tend the garden as helpmeets but a man needs a human helpmeet as well.



Yet God said he was alone so he was alone despite God being present.



Ok but just know that it doesn't appear in any Hebrew manuscript.
Yes, God made the animals. Chapter one tells us when as well as the order. Chapter one tells us God made man and women at the same time. Chapter 2 sheds details.
Chapter two only informs us that God made the animals....no when. You are assuming it was after Adam was made yet prior to Eve.
 
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There are Two Creation Stories in Genesis
This seeming contradiction clears up when you realize that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 comprise what is known as a frame story.
Wikipedia said:
A frame story (also known as a frame tale or frame narrative) is a literary technique that serves as a companion piece to a story within a story, where an introductory or main narrative sets the stage either for a more emphasized second narrative or for a set of shorter stories.
How many times does Genesis 2 say God put Adam into the Garden?

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.


Obviously God put him there only once, but it is narrated twice.
 
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Dale

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One of the pointed differences between the two creation stories in Genesis is that in the first, people are made in God's image. In the second creation story, there is no mention of image. Instead, God breaths in the breath of life.

From the first creation story:

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:26-27 NIV

In the second creation story, God breathes the breath of life into the man, Adam. There is no mention of the breath of life when the woman, Eve, is made but it apparently carries over.

7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7 NIV

Many people are under the impression that only Adam was made in the image of God, which seems to fit since we speak of God as male. This is a confusion of the two creation stories. Being made in "the image of God" happens in the first creation story, where God creates both "male and female." The "image of God" creation treats both genders equally.
 
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Dale

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If you are going to post links, it would be helpful if you would provide a brief summary of we will find there.

I did click on your link. Wondering who is responsible for that website, I clicked on About the Ministry. I got a Page Not Available. I'm not inclined to take a site seriously until I know who put it up and what they believe.
 
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Dale

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God created plants twice. The first time was the creation of the plants outside of the garden. The second time was when God made the garden and placed Adam in it.

You said....In summary, in the first creation story, God creates plants, then animals, then people. In the second creation story, God first creates the man, Adam, then plants, then animals, and then the woman, Eve. Each of these stories has its purpose but as literal story they can't be reconciled.

Chapter 2 is an overview with the main focus on day 6.

Gen 2:19 says....19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.

The animals were made prior to Adam.



-57: "Gen 2:19 says....19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. "

I could refer you to post #3, where I check Young's Literal Translation on that point.

Since you asked, I will also check the Blue Letter Bible. Notice that in the list of Hebrew words in Genesis 2:8, there is no "had." That word was supplied by translators, why I don't know.

upload_2020-8-29_22-14-12.png



upload_2020-8-29_22-13-37.png



Link
Genesis 2 :: New International Version (NIV)
 
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You are assuming it was after Adam was made yet prior to Eve.


That's what the Hebrew manuscripts say so I am not making an assumption.
 
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If you are going to post links, it would be helpful if you would provide a brief summary of we will find there.
Fair enough. It's simply an argument as to how the accounts can be reconciled into one.
 
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-57

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One of the pointed differences between the two creation stories in Genesis is that in the first, people are made in God's image. In the second creation story, there is no mention of image. Instead, God breaths in the breath of life.

From the first creation story:

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:26-27 NIV

In the second creation story, God breathes the breath of life into the man, Adam. There is no mention of the breath of life when the woman, Eve, is made but it apparently carries over.

7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7 NIV

Many people are under the impression that only Adam was made in the image of God, which seems to fit since we speak of God as male. This is a confusion of the two creation stories. Being made in "the image of God" happens in the first creation story, where God creates both "male and female." The "image of God" creation treats both genders equally.

Man is still made n the image of God.
1 Cor 11:7....For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.

Gen 9:6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.
 
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-57

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-57: "Gen 2:19 says....19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. "

I could refer you to post #3, where I check Young's Literal Translation on that point.

Since you asked, I will also check the Blue Letter Bible. Notice that in the list of Hebrew words in Genesis 2:8, there is no "had." That word was supplied by translators, why I don't know.

View attachment 283575


View attachment 283573


Link
Genesis 2 :: New International Version (NIV)

Your view introduces a contradiction into scripture..that is yet another reason I know you're wrong.
 
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