Theologies of Healing

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am inclined to agree, but I am also challenged by the seriousness with which some people approach faith in the matter of healing. It is certainly frequently mentioned in relation to healing in the New Testament (though not in John, unless I'm mistaken). Faith that is activated by words and is essentially indecent of God is, I think, from a spirit who is even more worser than the spirit of stupid.​

It is actually an occult spirit of sorcery.​

We do, but ruling out miracles a priori is not discernment, it's just Western antisupernaturalism. I did a quick google of the gold dust thing, and I didn't find any firsthand admissions of guilt, but maybe you have come across that somewhere. Do I think it's real? It seems a rather dumb thing for God to do, but then I could say the same thing about shaking and falling over, and those things have been happening since at least the first great awakening. I have to say, I'm not a huge fan of Bill Johnson's teaching, but I do believe miraculous healings have happened at Bethel. I believe the same thing about Lourdes, and there is some Catholic theology I have major issues with.

I have had a lot of conversations with the Lord about signs and wonders, and have acknowledged that we desperately need the gospel preached with signs following. Another of my Ebooks is "How Do We Know That Jesus Is Alive?" and I gave my views on the importance of signs and wonders in it. I've given you a copy of it.

 

[asking_about_healing]

This discussion cannot occur in the mere abstract, but must happen in the real, concrete world in which we live.

Do people of faith suffer and die from disease and ill health? If the answer is yes, then that has to be addressed.

In other words, why did my mom suffer and die from cancer? Why, in spite of prayer, pleading, hope, faith, begging, did she still die from cancer? I'm not saying this to be purely emotional in my argument, it's an example of the very serious and very real world we live in. And any theology about healing that can't happen in the real world where there is suffering and death is a false theology.

The Theology of Glory denies suffering and speaks only of God's power, a false theology.
The Theology of the Cross recognizes suffering, and God's presence and revelation of Himself in suffering.

Theologians of glory think they are wise because they speak of God's invisible wisdom and power, but they are in fact the very fools whom the Apostle speaks of when he says, "God chose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise".

A theologian of the cross instead looks upon the visible and manifest things of God, as He has revealed Himself in the Crucified Jesus, confessing that while the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, it is for us the very salvation of God. Yes, indeed, Christ is for us the righteousness, the power, and the wisdom of God.

-CryptoLutheran

CryptoLutheran,

I'm not entirely sure what point your making. Sorry. But I do hear the pain in your post, and I am so sorry for your loss. Losing your mother to cancer is a terrible thing.

For me, as for you, this is not an academic discussion: my wife has medically incurable cancer. There was a British charismatic leader named David Watson who died of cancer in the 80's. He was good friends with John Wimber, whose church saw a lot of miraculous healings. He received lots of prayer and yet was not healed. I have a friend at work whose sister-in-law was miraculously healed of cancer after the doctors told her there was nothing more they could do. I am most definitely not denying suffering. But I did not ask the question, is there suffering in the world.

You quoted 1 Corinthians 1:27 ("God chose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise"). If you read on six verses you will come to 1 Corinthians 2:2-5: "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power." Paul is also not one who denies suffering (see 2 Corinthians 11:16-33), but here he emphatically states he demonstrated God's power. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 4:20 he says, "The kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power."

Rather than seeing miraculous healing as a denial of suffering, I suggest we should see it as a response to suffering. Jesus once healed a multitude simply because he was moved by compassion (Matthew 14:14).

 

[Blade]

How was it before the fall? How is it in heaven? God told them..if you eat of this tree you will die. ANY sin we do .. the price for that is death. Sometimes its fast.. other times very slow. We don't think about the SIN we do and the price. We sin.. confess and then act like nothing happen.

No one walked away from Christ EVER that was not healed. Nothing has changed.. Isa. 53 are healed... 1st Peter 2 24.. were healed. For me the best is Peter and John at the gate called beautiful. "why look at is as if we did this under our own power? Its FAITH in that name. "And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

Did Peter and John have something you don't? Didnt Jesus say in my name you will cast out demons speak with new tongues.....lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Well what He was was these signs shall follow/accompany them that believe. So did Peter or John have to ask GOD or Jesus.. if its your will to heal...or God please show mercy on so and so..

They said..what I have give I unto you..in Jesus name. What did they have you as a believer don't? Gods will.. Gods will .. its HIS WORD! So many look around 1st.. as Peter did walking on the water.. they dont focus on JESUS.. HIS WORD! Gods will is to always heal. We dont stay focused... we doubt. God said.. if you doubt let not that man think he will get ANYTHING from God. Doubt will always stop God.

Its not what I say or someone else or this preacher or that. Its HIS WORD! So many never work their faith. Then God forbid something bad happens.. they fall.. no faith. Ambulance came at the store for my baby 4 years old. It never left.. the door opens.. he says.. "hes not responding to anything". As my wife sat there... lifeless... I turned.. said.. Father I will NEVER blame you. I knew this had nothing what so ever to do with my Father.. The door opens.. the man is very happy now "HES RESPONDING".. helicopter came took them. I get there to hear my baby screaming "DADDDDY"... he was perfectly fine.

My moms husband after my dad died had cancer. ALWAYS had that bible with him.. always talked healing.. never doubting. Thats all anyone saw. Well he died of cancer. What no one saw... was one day we were driving.. he stops.. and just starts to cry and cry.. he doubted so much he would be healed.

So do i now post all the blind (seen it) healed.. or the ones had cancer now healed? Is this how we judge on IF and WHEN doses GOD heal? A song where the preacher says "do you know Him? Dont try to mislead me...do you know HIM?" Do you? God said through Jesus "what ever you ask the Father in my name.. what ever you ask Him in my name He will do. What ever you ask ME I will do. If you delight your self in the lord He will give you the desires of your heart.. Acknowledge Him in all your ways and He WILL direct your path. If you know He hears you ..you know you HAVE the petitions you asked/prayed for. HIS WILL IS HIS WORD!

In all this... your questions.. do you seek what other people say (aka man) what they believe? Or do you seek pray ask Him? Do you wait on the lord that alone renews your strength.. to we wait on Him to hear? Do you WORK YOUR FAITH? How? How are you working your faith? This FAITH comes by hearing.. and hearing by the WORD OF GOD!

is it just a BOOK? Is that what you believe? Do you get sick every year about this time? Is that not what some say aka believe? Faith works both ways. Sickness comes to all... we live in a fallen world. It hits me.. I have a choice.. receive it or not. People get sick around me all the time.. do I? God as my witness no. Ask them.. but.. kidney stones.. holy Jesus.. this is SO hard for me to just believe haha. See its so easy for one to believe for others harder for your self..

God always heals.. its there waiting for you....sell ALL OF THIS through HIS eyes not mans. What do you have in you

 

[asking_about_healing]

Did Peter and John have something you don't?

Blade,

Whether I have what Peter and John had is a question I ask. When God anointed Jesus, he anointed him with the Holy Spirit and power (Acts 10:38). Perhaps this means you can have the Spirit without having power. I think I have the Holy Spirit--I pray in tongues, and I have had words of knowledge. Perhaps it is just a lack of faith. Perhaps not. I am uncertain, but I am praying for the Lord to use me more, and I am more frequently praying for the sick (I say "praying for the sick", but I try to do it more in the manner Jesus and the disciples did).

You mentioned sharing stories, so I thought I'd share one. I was not involved in the event, but I did manage to track down the pastor in question and emailed him. He assures me of the events:

It was either 1979 or 1980 when Pastor Soper was called to a hospital in Atlantic County, NJ. He had been summoned by a couple from the C&MA church plant he pastored. Their daughter had suffered a seizure and was not breathing.

By the time Soper reached the hospital, the child was already dead and the flat-lined EKG machine was being unplugged by a nurse. Feeling prompted by the Spirit, Pastor Soper asked if it would be alright if he prayed for the child, to which the nurse replied, "You know she's dead," but allowed him to go ahead. Soper prayed specifically for the Lord to restore the child, then he left the room and joined the parents who, through their tears, were sharing their faith with the doctor, who was a family friend.

About a minute after he joined them, they heard the girl crying, “I want my mommy." The girl's father, who had been reluctant to share his faith prior to the event, began to tell everyone in his web of influence what had happened, and a few days later a small group was started in their home. Nearly every household in the neighborhood had one or both spouses coming to that study, and several came to Christ as a result.​