Theological Liberalism

[redleghunter]

For me it is almost synonymous with young Earth creationist. In that regard their most notable characteristics are obscurantism, falsehood and complete ignorance of the thing they presume to criticise.

My feeling is that they are studiously careeful not to acquaint themselves with what the ToE actually says, for fear of discovering that their house is built on the quicksand they secretly suspect it of being.

Thank you for your honesty that you don't know the actual definition of fundamentalist. It may be the postmodern definition but not the theological definition.

 

[redleghunter]

All valid tenets of Christianity are voiced
by multiple authors,
in multiple books,
spread over time.


Some of those listed do not qualify.

Which ones?

 

[lesliedellow]

Thank you for your honesty that you don't know the actual definition of fundamentalist. It may be the postmodern definition but not the theological definition.

I know where the word came from. I have even read some of the four volume "The Fundamentals," but today's fundamentalists are obscurantists, pure and simple.

 

[redleghunter]

I know where the word came from. I have even read some of the four volume "The Fundamentals," but today's fundamentalists are obscurantists, pure and simple.

Right the use of the modern term is why I asked the question. The fundamentalists of late 19th and early 20th century would most likely not be associated with those who "wear" it today.

 

[seeking.IAM]

What is an example we have today in the Holy Scriptures we have before us which equates to "no door bell."

Verses left out of some translations that are present in others?

 

[SkyWriting]

Which ones?

Why...you have to do that detective work on your own.
If you think it's important or something. I did.

Find multiple versions of each one written by different authors
in different times. I won't even suggest you to subtract possible
copies of previous authors becasue that would be difficult.

 

[salt-n-light]

What makes a person theologically liberal?

They would usually discuss it in ways that make the theology relative, as opposed to treating it as absolute truth. Examples would be them implying that the theology is not the only valid one, or their theology is open to change, or they shape it in favor of their views.

 

[seeking.IAM]

The thing is when you are a rigid fundamentalist you tend to see a lot of liberals because you occupy one end of the continuum, and anybody that has a different interpretation or belief set than you is seen as liberal.

Similarly, when you are an extreme liberal, you occupy the other end of the continuum and anybody that has a different interpretation than you is seen as conservative.

Centrists look to the left and see people they can't agree with and to the right and see people they can't agree with.

I know a fella who likes to say, "What you see depends on where you sit."

 

[redleghunter]

Verses left out of some translations that are present in others?

Examples?

 

[redleghunter]

Why...you have to do that detective work on your own.
If you think it's important or something. I did.

Find multiple versions of each one written by different authors
in different times. I won't even suggest you to subtract possible
copies of previous authors becasue that would be difficult.

Frankly you made the charge some of the 5 fundamentals don't meet some standard. It is incumbent upon you to substantiate your claim. The homework is on your end not mine.

Show me.

 

[redleghunter]

The thing is when you are a rigid fundamentalist you tend to see a lot of liberals because you occupy one end of the continuum, and anybody that has a different interpretation or belief set than you is seen as liberal.

Similarly, when you are an extreme liberal, you occupy the other end of the continuum and anybody that has a different interpretation than you is seen as conservative.

Centrists look to the left and see people they can't agree with and to the right and see people they can't agree with.

I know a fella who likes to say, "What you see depends on where you sit."

Or one could just view Holy Scriptures as truth.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Or one could just view Holy Scriptures as truth.

Which would place you solidly in the middle.

 

[mindlight]

So in other words, this is just a long-winded way of saying that you believe Liberals aren't "true" Christians?

Or many of those who think they are safe cause they are not Saducees( nearest to a modern liberal) are actually wrong in other ways that are just as serious. The main point of my post which you missed is that the liberal - conservative divide is an artificial one. The real difference should be between true and false. Each of the tendencies I described crop up in individuals and groups that might be saved all the time.

 

[PhantomGaze]

Or many of those who think they are safe cause they are not Saducees( nearest to a modern liberal) are actually wrong in other ways that are just as serious. The main point of my post which you missed is that the liberal - conservative divide is an artificial one. The real difference should be between true and false. Each of the tendencies I described crop up in individuals and groups that might be saved all the time.

I think your post begs the question not only that Conservatives are right, and Liberals are wrong, but that anyone who isn't Conservative enough is not "safe". It seems to me you're only taking a more hard line conservative stance.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Or many of those who think they are safe cause they are not Saducees( nearest to a modern liberal) are actually wrong in other ways that are just as serious. The main point of my post which you missed is that the liberal - conservative divide is an artificial one. The real difference should be between true and false. Each of the tendencies I described crop up in individuals and groups that might be saved all the time.

How do you tell the true from the false?

 

[lesliedellow]

How do you tell the true from the false?

That's easy. Anybody who agrees with mindlight is a true Christian, and everybody else is a false Christian.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Having read through the comments so far, I found many good answers. I have some additional thoughts, but as I wrote them they were a bit much to make a good comment, so I started a new thread here:

What are Theological Liberalism and Theological Postmodernism?

Feel free to either comment on the new thread, or return and comment here.

 

[Mark Corbett]

The fundamentalist/liberal dichotomy presented here is mostly only meaningful in the American or British Reformed Presbyterian/Baptist tradition. Even then it's a gross simplification, since there are many modern alternatives to both.

I disagree. I lived in Indonesia for 14 years and have interacted with Christians from many nations. Conservative vs. Liberal theology is an issue which churches and Christians around the world struggle with. Of course this conflict has some unique manifestations in the US, but these are just variations on a broad and deep conflict.

 

[Mark Corbett]

. . . The Bible was reproduced by countless numbers of scribes working by hand until the invention of the printing press. Too many hands over too many centuries for me to think there isn't a mistake or two, or that some monk didn't take the liberty of adding his own words to explain it better. . . .

Yes, there are textual issues. And of course these issues can influence the meaning of a particular verse or passage. But when you look at the whole Bible, there are no textual issues which would change any significant belief or moral issue. Even if it causes a teaching to be missing from one passage, it is present in others where the text is not in doubt.

Looking for a textual variant that says it's ok to cheat on your wife or your taxes? There is none.

How about a variant that says Jesus didn't rise from the dead? No.

Or a variant that teaches that besides the Triune God there are a few other deities you should occasionally worship? No textual variants like that.

Liberals (I'm not saying you are one) often greatly exaggerate the role of textual variants. This is one of the many ways in which they undermine the authority of God's Word.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

That's easy. Anybody who agrees with hindsight is a true Christian, and everybody else is a false Christian.

Today's hindsight or yesterday's hindsight?