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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Theodicy and the Holocaust
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<blockquote data-quote="Quid est Veritas?" data-source="post: 74359775" data-attributes="member: 385144"><p>I disagree. As I said in the thread above, the world seems mostly good to me. An evil or deceptive creator could make a far worse one. I feel really sorry for you, if you conceive of life as endless torture or so.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps Leibnitz is ultimately right, and this world is the best of all possible worlds - though he of course backs up his reasoning by assuming many of the precepts of Christianity. Regardless, this world is hardly the product of evil or deception - I could be tortured daily, for instance, with no respite; or given the tiniest respite to long for during subsequent torture. You'll need to back up this claim significantly.</p><p></p><p>Further, "other than faith we can't know God's moral nature"? This is another statement you seem to be taking axiomatically. Historically, the prevailing view is that we can observe Natural Law, a moral order independant of that prevailing societally (which research in infants has backed up), from which God's 'moral nature' can be seen as its source. Sure, you need faith to believe in God, but thereafter Morality follows deductively. It isn't as if there is a standard above God by which He was measured, but God is considered the measure of morality - how well we can perceive this, is another and controversial question. I mean, have you ever heard of Karl Barth or the Calvinist tendency to think that God's justice need not even appear just to us? It is hardly "keeping it simple" to blithlely make such controversial, and complex and much argued, statements as this one, and take it as a given. You would need to show your work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quid est Veritas?, post: 74359775, member: 385144"] I disagree. As I said in the thread above, the world seems mostly good to me. An evil or deceptive creator could make a far worse one. I feel really sorry for you, if you conceive of life as endless torture or so. Perhaps Leibnitz is ultimately right, and this world is the best of all possible worlds - though he of course backs up his reasoning by assuming many of the precepts of Christianity. Regardless, this world is hardly the product of evil or deception - I could be tortured daily, for instance, with no respite; or given the tiniest respite to long for during subsequent torture. You'll need to back up this claim significantly. Further, "other than faith we can't know God's moral nature"? This is another statement you seem to be taking axiomatically. Historically, the prevailing view is that we can observe Natural Law, a moral order independant of that prevailing societally (which research in infants has backed up), from which God's 'moral nature' can be seen as its source. Sure, you need faith to believe in God, but thereafter Morality follows deductively. It isn't as if there is a standard above God by which He was measured, but God is considered the measure of morality - how well we can perceive this, is another and controversial question. I mean, have you ever heard of Karl Barth or the Calvinist tendency to think that God's justice need not even appear just to us? It is hardly "keeping it simple" to blithlely make such controversial, and complex and much argued, statements as this one, and take it as a given. You would need to show your work. [/QUOTE]
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