[/color]You have as much evidence to justify your belief as any extremist muslim does.....which is no evidence whatsoever.
This is a strawman. We have as much evidence as you do about your own beliefs, now you may say that Atheism is not a belief, but it is, is might not be a "Religion" but it is the Belief that there is no God (or gods), it is a creed, with it's own dogmas, and ideals. As such, you have as much evidence as everyone else to your claim or belief, yet you hold to it.. the question is.. why?
You reference your bible and your "heart and feelings" to justify your belief, which is exactly what anyone can do to justify their belief.
I'll agree to that.
There is no difference in the evidence you have for your belief and the evidence that extremeist muslims have.
Again, or that you have, or that anyone has, when it comes to a belief, creed, or dogma.
The difference is, I have a lot of evidence that the lessons taught in the bible have stood for 2000 years, and yet no one has been able to improve upon them. despite their best efforts.
Also, I could offer you insight into the divinity of the lessons taught in the bible, and how it applies, that these lessons, even after 2000 years, still hold strong as a good moral guide, and still are the best way to live a life and have positive cultural interaction.
The advantages, and the rules as they affect the positive of a culture are evidence in and of themselves, so it is a bit more then just simple "I believe" because, I have seen what Jesus taught, and given application, and seeing what happens when they are not followed, I have a study done, that involved everyone in the world. I would for the past 2000 years, and I would have to say, that is quite an extensive test, that supports that this "belief" is still the best there is.
My morality comes from using my brain to figure out that if I hope to be treated well by others....I should probably treat others well.
Which is a byproduct of your cultural influence, and I might add is the pinnacle of the Christian faith. You see, you only will ever have, what you have to work with, and what you have to work with is what you have been influenced by, and exposed to. Thus, you may very well be intelligent, and well informed, but that is still all you have to work with, the limited data you have gathered as an individual, living in the culture you have, with it's limited confines. And Given what you have put forth, you are hopelessly influenced by the Christian faith, and it's ideals of morality. In a sense, you are following the teachings of Jesus, you just do not realize them as such, again, this is a product of your culture and it's influence upon you, molding your very thinking patterns, to have you believe what the culture as a whole believes, regardless of your acceptance of a God or gods.
No bible involved, it's just common sense.
It's common sense, as per the culture you live in, with it's already established ideals of what is immoral and what is moral, this culture was built on the Christian faith of what is moral and immoral, as such, even if you yourself are not a Christian, you will and shall forever be a product of it's moral codes, because the culture itself is a product of it;s moral codes, regardless of how twisted or distorted they become as time and sin influence them. The foundation is there.
People have led moral lives without the bible for centuries, and they will as long as human beings walk the earth.
We think, see, the Scriptures establish what is Moral and Immoral, with out them, anyone could say something is immoral or moral and do it, and say that are living a moral life.
For example, killing children with abnormalities was moral, as per the Greek culture, there was no sin or wrong in doing this, as it was a necessity of the culture and the time. As such, we cold say, in a way, that everyone had lived morally good, if they followed what their culture taught, just as "vikings" believed that Valhalla was only for those that died going down fighting, thus killing, and dieing were a positive thing in their lives. Now, the difference between you and I, is that I am no longer influenced by my culture, as I once was, I am guided by my God, and if the culture I live in, and my God disagree, then I choose what my God has set forth, you on the other had, have no standard to set, other then the one your culture has provided to you. Yes, I know you will disagree, but if you do, what other form of moral development do you have , other then your cultural influence?
People that kill for religion kill in the name of their religion, but the people you listed above did not kill in the name of atheism.
Yes they do, they Kill in the name of what they have been told to kill in, IE: We must destroy the Religious as they are a plague upon this earth, was what Stalin taught, so are they currently doing in China, they are killing in the name of Atheism, to destroy the religions, to make a purity of science, or a purity of obeidence to the country and it's codes, not to any "god or gods" as such, this is directly killing in the name of Atheism. People will kill.. and destroy.. in the name of any Creed, or Ideal, Religion, or against religion, for race, or even simple ideals of where they were are born. People are sheep being lead to the slaughter by charismatic leaders that can twist their minds, and set them on a course of destruction, this is how it has always been, and how it will continue to be, until the day we remove ourselves from such Human control, and place ourselves in the hands of God and God alone.
I don't know how else to say it to christians that atheism is not a belief. If you say that you don't believe in unicorns, that makes you an aunicornist.
True, and at the same Time, I am an Antiunicornist, just I do not BELIEVE in Goblins, Trolls and many other things, but it is a Belief that they do not exist, it is nothing other then a Belief, or a Creed, or a personal Dogma on my part that they are not real, it may not be a "religion" but it is a personal creed or belief.
You BELIEVE that there are no gods.
Does that mean I can tell anything else about you other than that you don't believe in unicorns? No. The people you listed above were power hugry jerks, religious or no, and it had nothing to do with atheism.
Just the same with many Religious leaders, it has nothing to do with Religion, and everything to do with power and control. If you can grasp one side of the fence, why not the other?
If you want to bring up people that have killed millions in the name of religion, we can start another thread if you wish.
Well we could, but it would be a short list, better list would be, say, people that have killed to further their own personal agendas, and goals, and used a "religion" because it was a tool of great persuasion. Now that would be a long list... very long list.
But at the same time, the list of people that have killed simply for power and control is a long list as well, and nothing is a better tool then to have people believe that what they are doing will ensure their place in "heaven" because that boots moral, and induces a level of frantically loyalty of your pawns.
But, people that know the Religion will speak out, and try to stop the abuse. Again, which makes it seem why the church is always at ends with the church.
But your version of "trying" involves converting everyone to your set of beliefs, which is wrong.
I explain my religion, if you believe, fine, if you don't, fine. It's your choice.
However, some of the moral codes that have came from the Scriptures are not only biblical, but a necessity of peaceful coexistence for all parties involved.
A good example, "Treat others as you would like to be treated", or "Don't Kill each other", don't steal, don't rape, etc.
These are all very powerful and proper moral guidelines for a peaceful civilization to have mutual and open coexistence.
Out of Time.. But.. I hope I have given you food for thought, and something to think about...
And Jesus does not teach that we are supposed to ram our religion don your throat, but we do need to have a means where we have a "safe" society, and that can only come about, if people are expected to follow cultural and civil moral codes for interaction.
God Bless
Key