Theistic Evolution, do you believe it?

[M-Trav]

I've been thinking about evolution vs creation alot lately and I want to know some different opinions... What do you believe and why?

 

[Dark_Lite]

Evolution because that's what all the available evidence points to, and Genesis was written poetically. It should also be noted that it's not evolution vs creation, it's evolution vs creationism. Theistic evolution is a particular description of describing how God went about creating, while creationism is another. Both are creation, however.

Also, moved to the Origins Theology forum.

 

[philadiddle]

Evolution because that's what all the available evidence points to, and Genesis was written poetically. It should also be noted that it's not evolution vs creation, it's evolution vs creationism. Theistic evolution is a particular description of describing how God went about creating, while creationism is another. Both are creation, however.

Also, moved to the Origins Theology forum.

I agree with this. I would also add that the creation account is a response to other creation myths of that time, not to copy them but to correct the views that were held of God and His relationship with us. It's more important and more meaningful to read it as a description of our present relationship with God and as a guide to why we are here. On the other hand, science doesn't look at those questions but instead looks at how God made us. Since the universe is God's creation, then studying it reveals His work, and it is telling us that God used evolution to make us.

 

[crawfish]

Although I accept that evolutionary theory best explains the known data - and does that far better and more consistently than any other theory - I myself put no eggs in the evolution basket. I'm not a scientist. The truth or falseness is simply reality and the future will reveal that.

What I do fully believe is that the early chapters of Genesis were not written to be a literal account of God's act of creation. They were not intended as science or as history, but as a theological statement using the worldviews of an ancient Israelite. This nullifies any of the theological implications from evolution.

 

[Papias]

I know evolution is true - I don't just "believe" it. For many things, belief is fine, because there isn't clear evidence. However, with something like, say, the idea that matter is made of atoms (Atomic theory), we can "know" it by looking at the evidence. There is overwhelming evidence for evolution, it's well accepted by practically all the experts, and it is established as firmly as any other major idea in science, hence, we can know it, not just believe it.

I, like so many other Christians, don't see any problem with realizing that God is powerful enough to have used evolution as a method to create. It's not a compromise, and it's not "trying to be open minded". It is a powerful and consistent theology that includes the truth of the full Bible as well as the truth God reveals through his creation, through science.

Lastly, lots of good resources on theistic evolution are available. Theistic Evolution is also called Evolutionary Creation - just cut and paste "Evolutionary Creation" into the search line at Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more , and a bunch of books will come up. You don't have to take my word for anything, look into the evidence yourself.


Papias

PS - These two thread offer more resources. Books: http://www.christianforums.com/t7385839/, and forums/blogs: http://www.christianforums.com/t7475226/.

 

[Darkness27]

I'm a TE. Evolution is so strongly supported I accept it as a fact. Since I was also raised Christian I somewhat struggled between science and faith. However I, like most Christians, have worked out the two and in the end find that accepting evolution is not in conflict with accepting God or Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

It would be nice if any creationists would chime in, if nothing more then to represent the other side. I always like it when both sides are represented, I think it adds to the fullness of the conversation and makes it less one-sided, especially since a good minority are creationists.

 

[ExaltedReign]

I'm struggling about whats what, I'm thinking that the story of creation wasn't true because there is so much evidence of evolution.

My pastor said that this was fine, just as long as I believe in Jesus and his gift.

I'm struggling with this, can anyone help me?

 

[Dark_Lite]

I'm struggling about whats what, I'm thinking that the story of creation wasn't true because there is so much evidence of evolution.

My pastor said that this was fine, just as long as I believe in Jesus and his gift.

I'm struggling with this, can anyone help me?

The creation story is true, it's just the literal interpretation of it that's not true.

 

[addo]

The creation story is true, it's just the literal interpretation of it that's not true.

Why? What evidence is there that, for example, the earth was not created in 6 days but in lengthier periods of time?

 

[interested in life]

I'm struggling about whats what, I'm thinking that the story of creation wasn't true because there is so much evidence of evolution.

My pastor said that this was fine, just as long as I believe in Jesus and his gift.

I'm struggling with this, can anyone help me?

Sure,dont listen to TEs and youll be just fine.Its a naturalistic concept.You actually do some research into what they claim,and watch them try to explain it.Contradictions everywhere.
Single celled organisms dont develop into humans no matter how long you give it.The goo zoo you theory is sci fi.The examples they will give you dont apply to what they claim.
Basically these people have invested a lot of time and money into their worldly education,its a personal thing for them to defend.

 

[Mallon]

Sure,dont listen to TEs and youll be just fine.Its a naturalistic concept.

Why is that a bad thing?

 

[Dark_Lite]

Why? What evidence is there that, for example, the earth was not created in 6 days but in lengthier periods of time?

You can go with Gap Theory if you want. The evidence that we have is that the Earth is not 6,000 years old, and that evolution happened. Gap Theory is a hard sell because the evidence we have points to a constantly evolving (not related to biological evolution for those of you who like to play word games) universe, not something that hung out for million/billion year stretches before God created the next thing.

 

[interested in life]

Why is that a bad thing?

not accurate for a start.Most TEs extend their disbelief that God created man and woman by hand to other aspects of genesis.
I believe thats actually quite dangerous because it blurs our history.Naturalism and a bible believer dont mix.
However i realise that in this format its very difficult for people to shift their opinions.
I outlined the reasons why earlier regarding TEs and their education plus it seems for catholics especially its become a divine mandate from above.
I just reckon the pope got bad advice.Just my opinion.

 

[ExaltedReign]

Does it really matter to know exactly how we came to be? Isn't it just fine that we exist and believe in God's Gift?

 

[interested in life]

Does it really matter to know exactly how we came to be? Isn't it just fine that we exist and believe in God's Gift?

The rest of genesis starts to look like a house of cards.Theres a good reason why the true account of our origins has suvived until this day while other theories through out the ages seem to have died.
Some theories die then are miraculously ressurrected.Abiogenesis is 1 such theory.
Its very important to hold to the truth.
I just dont expect to shift peoples opinions.Im always surprised when people post in topics then say they dont really care.Im not saying that i dont care,i just know that its usually fruitless.

 

[Mallon]

I believe thats actually quite dangerous because it blurs our history.Naturalism and a bible believer dont mix.

Please define "naturalism." Are you saying that it is impossible for a Christian to believe that some things occur non-miraculously?

 

[interested in life]

Please define "naturalism." Are you saying that it is impossible for a Christian to believe that some things occur non-miraculously?

Please use the dictionary,and secondly im allergic to straw.
Im saying its impossible for the belief that we miraculously evolved from goo to be tied in with the clear account that he made adam by hand.Theres also the issue that he clearly creates and divides the animals according to kind.
You make another worzel gummidge and ill just stop replying and leave you to it.Loaded questions 101 ill give you a C-.Nice attempt but needs refinement.Probably skills a bit dulled from reading too much talkorigins and dawkins.

 

[Mallon]

Please use the dictionary

There are multiple definitions of 'naturalism'. I'm asking you which definition you're using. Is it methodological naturalism? Ontological naturalism?

Im saying its impossible for the belief that we miraculously evolved from goo to be tied in with the clear account that he made adam by hand.Theres also the issue that he clearly creates and divides the animals according to kind.

But that's like saying modern embryology cannot be tied with the "clear account" that we are knit together by the hand of God in the womb, as the Psalms tell us. Or that modern astronomy cannot be tied with the "clear account" that the sun goes around the earth, as Samuel, 1 Chronicles, Job, Joshua, and Ecclesiastes tell us. Are we to reject our understanding of fetal development and astronomy on the basis of an erroneous interpretation of Scripture? That seems to be what you are saying here.

 

[philadiddle]

Please use the dictionary,and secondly im allergic to straw.
Im saying its impossible for the belief that we miraculously evolved from goo to be tied in with the clear account that he made adam by hand.Theres also the issue that he clearly creates and divides the animals according to kind.
You make another worzel gummidge and ill just stop replying and leave you to it.Loaded questions 101 ill give you a C-.Nice attempt but needs refinement.Probably skills a bit dulled from reading too much talkorigins and dawkins.

It's so hard to tell sometimes: Poe's Law - RationalWiki

 

[crawfish]

I'm struggling about whats what, I'm thinking that the story of creation wasn't true because there is so much evidence of evolution.

My pastor said that this was fine, just as long as I believe in Jesus and his gift.

I'm struggling with this, can anyone help me?

Don't struggle. You can believe in the message of Genesis and with Christ as savior despite the overwhelming evidence for evolution and an ancient universe, no matter what some will say.

We believe in "naturalism" in that we believe that natural causes are behind creation. This does not necessarily prohibit supernatural tinkering on God's part, but it does mean that we do not assume the supernatural at any point other than the absolute beginning. However, we also believe that God's glory is equally evident in both the natural and the supernatural; both declare His glory, both are equally used to accomplish His purposes.

We can provide many resources for your study, if you want.