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The Word Hell

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soldout

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ChristianMuse said:
There are may people who have made the statement that they are already in hell because of life circumstances. This is usually spoken by those who do not believe in a literal hell and (more often than not) do not believe in God. They believe that death brings a release from earthly torment and then there is nothing. Some think that upon death all go to heaven. These are not scriptural responses.

You are correct in one aspect of hell, that it is a separation from God. What is missing is that there is a judgment and those found wanting are delivered to the lake of fire. We stand by faith in the revealed word of God. Those who are not of faith are condemned already because they do not believe. If we hold back part of the truth people will believe the first paragraph.

The problem remains... too many churches do not teach adequately about judgment and hell. Some do not mention it at all.

The question remains... Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

Why is this important... My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Hosea 4:6

:)

I've read through everything here and I have to say I lean towards agreeing with you. But what is not being acknowledged well enough in this thread, in my opinion anyway, is the fact that speaking forth truth to an unbeliever and speaking forth truth to a believer are two entirely didfferent things, even if the exact same words are used and the speaking forth happens only once and at the same audience.

There is something to be said and supported in those congregations that do nothing but teach through the bible, expository teaching.

They never miss the full council of God that way.

How could we be any safer than that?
 
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ChristianMuse

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soldout said:
I've read through everything here and I have to say I lean towards agreeing with you. But what is not being acknowledged well enough in this thread, in my opinion anyway, is the fact that speaking forth truth to an unbeliever and speaking forth truth to a believer are two entirely didfferent things, even if the exact same words are used and the speaking forth happens only once and at the same audience.

There is something to be said and supported in those congregations that do nothing but teach through the bible, expository teaching.

They never miss the full council of God that way.

How could we be any safer than that?

I whole heartedly agree with you. There is a vast difference between the believer and the unbeliever. That is why I stuck to the thread topic of "in the church" itself. What happens outside of the church is up to the individual and how that individual is lead by the Spirit to share the gospel with those who do not know the truth. The methods and topics are vast and varied.

:)
 
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soldout

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ChristianMuse said:
I whole heartedly agree with you. There is a vast difference between the believer and the unbeliever. That is why I stuck to the thread topic of "in the church" itself. What happens outside of the church is up to the individual and how that individual is lead by the Spirit to share the gospel with those who do not know the truth. The methods and topics are vast and varied.

:)

I have been witness to a seemingly insignificant scripture just breaking down a person. So my chioce always has to be just teach what the bible says. Give the meaning as you can (think Nehemiah) and let God do His own work.

At the end of the day, no matter how hard we have strived or how clever we think we have been, we are yet un-profitable servants. We have only done that which it was our duty to do.

I can guarantee you this, every one God has chosen will be saved. Not one will be lost. Not one.
 
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Faith In God

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iglesia said:
I don't think it is necessarily accurate to say that the non-believer does not understand the disease, especially for the person who, for one reason or another makes the decision to step foot in a church. Before I came to Christ I did not need anyone to tell me about Hell; I was already there and I'm sure I knew as much about it as any Christian out there. The last thing I needed in a message was to be told that God is going to punish you and eternally torment you for your sins. What I needed was to be told that I could be redeemed by humbling myself before God and accepting the gift of His grace.
This worked because you had knowledge of your sin and was already convicted of it. Those who are humble are given the gospel, and those who are proud must be lowered before they are ready to accept the grace of the gospel.
This is what I needed and I am grateful there are churches that provided it. If, at first, I had gone to a church that felt the need to preach on Hell, I would have continued to live as I was.
No. You would've seen the truth of the fact of sin in your own life and would feel yourself nodding in agreement. Why would you be driven away by what you know is true?
There may be some people for whom that message is necessary; I'm not one to judge that. But I certainly cannot criticize churches that choose not take that approach.
To take the law out of the gospel is to invite false conversions. To preach Christ crucified for sin before the audience understands the full extent of sin is for a doctor to tell someone he's never seen before to take a cure for a disease the person has never heard of.
 
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Faith In God

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ChristianMuse said:
If this was truly the case then I would think that the Gospels would be conspicuously absent of any remark about hell, judgment, and eternal punishment. Since it is found in each of the gospels the understanding of hell, etc. must have been necessary. As for those who had the Gospel originally given to them... did they know all this ( hell etc.) before Jesus revealed the truth to them? I doubt it. Even though Jesus picked them that doesn't mean they already had the knowledge. Like the parables Jesus used... he was always having to explain it to the apostles in planner language because too often they didn't understand what Jesus was saying to the crowds. Of course this misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying was in fulfillment of scripture.
They understood sin because they ate, drank, slept, and breathed the Law (the ten commandments). It is conspicuously absent of the Law being preached. Look at the preaching of Paul (read Romans) and compare how much more he used the Law to convict of sin to the Gentiles.
Now if you are saying that just before he ascended to heaven, when the great commission was given to the church, that then they understood the gospel... I would agree with you. Yet the gospel is everything that Jesus revealed. That includes teachings and mentioning of hell, etc.
No. The Gospel means "Good news". The full Gospel does, in fact, include the bad news so that the good news will be better understood and appreciated. If Jesus preached both bad and good news to the Jews who ate, drank, slept and breathed the law, then how much more a nation with an idolatrous understanding of God's holy nature?

[BTW]I have the strange feeling that I am agreeing with you, but seeming with an argument...am I right?

I agree that, in order to understand the solution, one first needs to know that there is a problem. Where I disagree is in whether the lost understand the problem in the first place. Hell is eternal separation from God, right? I assume we can agree to that premise. Before I came to Christ, I was quite aware of what it is like to be seprated from God. In fact, I believe that the only thing that I failed to understand about my situation was that I could not escape the hell that my life had become through death. I thank God that He got to me before I tried to escape on my own. What I am getting at here is that I think the lost understand the problem quite well. What they need to hear is the solution.
Bill Bright conducted a survey in which he concluded that modern evangelistic efforts can expect an 80-90% backsliding rate. Right now, we exclude the law very much. I have been to a great many churches, and the 'alter call' is done at the end of every sermon, whether or not the cross, sin, hell, or God's judgment or righteousness was mentioned. I have to disagree with you.
I don't think that our ministry should avoid the topic of Hell altogether, but the focus, IMO, should be the solution rather than the problem.
Say I am a doctor. I have a cure for a newly discovered disease. It is horribly expensive, though. I walk down the street and see someone with it. In horror, I sell my car and mortgage my house to acquire the cure, find the person and say "Excuse me, you have a deadly disease. I just sold my car and morgaged my house to get the cure." How will the person react? He might take it, he might not. And he will definately think you are kind of weird for coming up to him, a stranger, and giving up so much for a disease you don't really think you have. (Go up to anyone on the street, I challenge you. You think people are already convinced of the disease of sin? Ask a stranger (after you get a little conversation going) and ask them if they think they are a good person. They will, without fail, say "Yes", though some might concede that they make mistakes 'sometimes'.) Now, how much better would it be if I were to go up to the stranger, start talking to him, and point out the symptoms and ask him to examine himself to see if what I am saying is true. If he becomes convinced of the disease, he will seek the cure. And he will appreciate the sacrifice made for the cure. And he will take it with great thanks.
 
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ChristianMuse

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butxifxnot said:
Bill Bright conducted a survey in which he concluded that modern evangelistic efforts can expect an 80-90% backsliding rate. Right now, we exclude the law very much. I have been to a great many churches, and the 'alter call' is done at the end of every sermon, whether or not the cross, sin, hell, or God's judgment or righteousness was mentioned.

Hmmm... is that the same back-sliding rate for ex-cons? I do not think that the method of coming to salvation is the root of the problem. It is discipleship or the lack of it that is a real problem in the Christian community. Reminds me of the parable of the sower. There really didn't appear to be too many that made it all the way.

:)
 
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Faith In God

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ChristianMuse said:
Hmmm... is that the same back-sliding rate for ex-cons? I do not think that the method of coming to salvation is the root of the problem. It is discipleship or the lack of it that is a real problem in the Christian community. Reminds me of the parable of the sower. There really didn't appear to be too many that made it all the way.

:)
Well, if you plow the ground of the hard sinner's heart before throwing the seeds, the seed has a better chance.
 
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ChristianMuse

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butxifxnot said:
Well, if you plow the ground of the hard sinner's heart before throwing the seeds, the seed has a better chance.

How true are your words. This also is true; it is the work of the Holy Spirit to plow the ground and get it ready for the seed. Those who are prepared by God for the seed will flourish. We can only hope that tares are not sown at the same time by the enemy.

:)
 
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Faith In God

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ChristianMuse said:
How true are your words. This also is true; it is the work of the Holy Spirit to plow the ground and get it ready for the seed. Those who are prepared by God for the seed will flourish. We can only hope that tares are not sown at the same time by the enemy.

:)
The Holy Spirit brings the increase as well as the growth of the seed itself, but the tearing down of pride can be worked by the Law (the Ten Commandments). When Peter first preached (publicly, at Pentecost), at his mentioning of the Jews' collective sin (namely, killing Christ), they were "cut to the heart". The Holy Spirit must work, but we have to be sharing the whole Gospel, which includes the bad news of sin (otherwise the good news doesn't make much sense.)
 
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ChristianMuse

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butxifxnot said:
The Holy Spirit brings the increase as well as the growth of the seed itself, but the tearing down of pride can be worked by the Law (the Ten Commandments). When Peter first preached (publicly, at Pentecost), at his mentioning of the Jews' collective sin (namely, killing Christ), they were "cut to the heart". The Holy Spirit must work, but we have to be sharing the whole Gospel, which includes the bad news of sin (otherwise the good news doesn't make much sense.)

I agree that the whole gospel needs to be preached. All of the new testament needs to be preached. Even the old testamant has value for it is an example to us of how God deals with his people and promises that were made and a general history of God's acts among the nations.
 
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holo

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You can't have a true Gospel message without hell, and you can't give a true picture of God if ou're just focusing on hell all the time. Hell needs to be worked in there sometime.
I have a friend who is amazingly good at sharing the gospel, and if we'd had a competition in getting others saved, he'd beat me hands down. He doesn't even believe in hell.
 
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