The word Christian means

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

How ever the original poster is Lew White not Peter Overton.
So what ever any of you think of me is invalid. I posted this to get some intelligent discussion and recieved nothing but condemnation.

The Historical Thesaurus of the OED gives the earlier terms c(h)ristenman(n) OE-1523, c(h)risten OE-1530, lim(b) OE-1607, disciple c1380-, saint 1382-1487, Nazarene 1382-, member of Christ a1400-1582.

The word Christian did not exist before 1523

prodromos · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
The word Christian did not exist before 1523

The word "χριστιανός" has existed from before Luke wrote Acts.
How do you think it should be translated into English? Please explain your reasons why.

prodromos · Feb 12, 2015

After reading the Gospels in Greek, and comparing it to the Latin Vulgate, he wrote in his diary, Either this (the original Greek) is not the Gospel or we are not Christians.

I would be very interested to see how this statement stands up to scholarly criticism. It takes a long time to get a working knowledge of Koine Greek, let alone be proficient enough to accurately translate, so I really have to wonder how qualified he was to make such a statement. I don't read Latin so am unable to judge, but I have never heard such a statement made by any qualified linguist who is proficient in Greek and Latin. It is true that a lot of deeper meaning can be lost in a Latin translation since Latin has only one quarter of the vocabulary of Greek, thus several slightly different Greek words would be translated as one Latin word. Still, I've never heard of professional translators finding so huge a difference between the Latin New Testament and the Greek such as Thomas Linacre supposedly found.

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

prodromos said:
The word "χριστιανός" has existed from before Luke wrote Acts.
How do you think it should be translated into English? Please explain your reasons why.

I do not speak Greek so I would not translate such a word.

prodromos · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
I do not speak Greek so I would not translate such a word.

The word has not been translated into English, rather it has been transliterated, such that the Greek word has now entered into the English language with its spelling virtually unchanged.

Vince53 · Feb 12, 2015

Paladin, I looked up Tyndale's Bible online and cut and pasted the verse.

PaladinValer · Feb 12, 2015

Vince53 said:
Paladin, I looked up Tyndale's Bible online and cut and pasted the verse.

Still, excellently researched. You probably found a transcribed version that fixed the long S (&#383. No big deal, although it would add strength to the case.

ViaCrucis · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
I do not speak Greek so I would not translate such a word.

Here let me help you.

χ -> the letter Chi, in the Latin alphabet becoming Ch, as in choreography
ρ -> the letter Rho, becoming R
ι -> the letter Iota, becoming I
σ -> the letter Sigma, becoming S
τ -> the letter Tau, becoming T
ι -> the letter Iota, becoming I
α -> the letter Alpha, becoming A
ν -> the letter Nun, becoming N
ό -> the letter Omicron, becoming O
ς -> the end form of the letter Sigma, becoming S

χριστιανός - christianos

-CryptoLutheran

PaladinValer · Feb 12, 2015

ViaCrucis and prodromos are both correct. Anyone who does a quick Google search for ancient source texts will see that every single family tradition of Greek Text, be it Alexandrian, Byzantine, etc, includes the Greek "Christianos", and Tyndale is known to have used Erasmus' 3rd Edition, which also includes that word. As such, the argument that "Christian" is not original is false.

Once again, the ideas of the original poster are not based in reality, and their etymology is wrong.

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

prodromos said:
The word has not been translated into English, rather it has been transliterated, such that the Greek word has now entered into the English language with its spelling virtually unchanged.

Have you got the original Greek word?

I know there are Alexandrian manuscripts and if your Greek comes from that then you have corruption.

Do you know the original manuscripts?

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

PaladinValer said:
Still, excellently researched. You probably found a transcribed version that fixed the long S (&#383. No big deal, although it would add strength to the case.

Vince53 is correct I have the original reprint of Tyndales bible. THe word Christian is actually written Christen.

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

ViaCrucis said:
Here let me help you.

χ -> the letter Chi, in the Latin alphabet becoming Ch, as in choreography
ρ -> the letter Rho, becoming R
ι -> the letter Iota, becoming I
σ -> the letter Sigma, becoming S
τ -> the letter Tau, becoming T
ι -> the letter Iota, becoming I
α -> the letter Alpha, becoming A
ν -> the letter Nun, becoming N
ό -> the letter Omicron, becoming O
ς -> the end form of the letter Sigma, becoming S

χριστιανός - christianos

-CryptoLutheran

Cool thanks but what manuscript are you getting the Greek word from?

Why did not TYndale translate to that way?

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

PaladinValer said:
ViaCrucis and prodromos are both correct. Anyone who does a quick Google search for ancient source texts will see that every single family tradition of Greek Text, be it Alexandrian, Byzantine, etc, includes the Greek "Christianos", and Tyndale is known to have used Erasmus' 3rd Edition, which also includes that word. As such, the argument that "Christian" is not original is false.

Once again, the ideas of the original poster are not based in reality, and their etymology is wrong.

No all the new versions are written from Alexandrian texts which were translated by Westcot and Hort who were Satanists.

The Alexandrian Scripts are corrupt thats why NIV and all these others bibles do not run sound with KJV.

ViaCrucis · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
Cool thanks but what manuscript are you getting the Greek word from?

Why did not TYndale translate to that way?

Because Tyndale used the common 16th century English spelling of Christian, Christen.

And the word is in all Greek manuscripts that contain 1 Peter 4:16.

But if you'd like an example, this is a shot I took from Erasmus 3rd Edition of his Novus Testamentum ad Graecam, (published 1522) 1 Peter 4:16

I circled the word christianos. If you want to see the photocopy of the page yourself, look here: 580 - Novum testamentum, ad Graecam veritatem, ac vetustissimorum simul & emendatissimorum exemplarium Latinorum fidem, tum ad orthodoxorum interpretationem, ac citationem denuo diligentissime recognitum, ab Erasmo Roterodamo, sacrae theologiae profe

If your curious about the funny 's' letter that is a Stigma, which you can read more about on this Wikipedia page, which explains as well or better than I would that it is a digraph of Sigma and Tau--which as we've already learned correspond to English 'S' and 'T' respectively.

-CryptoLutheran

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

prodromos said:
The word has not been translated into English, rather it has been transliterated, such that the Greek word has now entered into the English language with its spelling virtually unchanged.

Transliterate and translate are the same thing too.

transliterate
[trans-lit-uh-reyt, tranz-]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
verb (used with object), transliterated, transliterating.
1.
to change (letters, words, etc.) into corresponding characters of another alphabet or language:

translate
[trans-leyt, tranz-, trans-leyt, tranz-]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
verb (used with object), translated, translating.
1.
to turn from one language into another or from a foreign language into one's own:
to translate Spanish.
2.
to change the form, condition, nature, etc., of; transform; convert:
to translate wishes into deeds.
3.
to explain in terms that can be more easily understood; interpret.
4.
to bear, carry, or move from one place, position, etc., to another; transfer.
5.
Mechanics. to cause (a body) to move without rotation or angular displacement; subject to translation.
6.
Computers. to convert (a program, data, code, etc.) from one form to another:
to translate a FORTRAN program into assembly language.
7.
Telegraphy. to retransmit or forward (a message), as by a relay.

PaladinValer · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
No all the new versions are written from Alexandrian texts which were translated by Westcot and Hort who were Satanists.

Nope; Brooke Foss Westcott (note the spelling) was the Bishop of Durham for eleven years, from 1890 to his death, and Fenton John Anthony Hort was a theologian, with emphasis on languages, Patristics, and the other Ante-Nicene Fathers.

The Alexandrian Scripts are corrupt thats why NIV and all these others bibles do not run sound with KJV.

Straw Man...and also proven wrong by archeology.

PaladinValer · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
Transliterate and translate are the same thing too.

Um, your own proof says your view is wrong. Read it again.

To translate is to equivocate a word in one language to one in another.

To transliterate is to bring a word from one language into the other.

These aren't the same.

IamNazarene · Feb 12, 2015

PaladinValer said:
Nope; Brooke Foss Westcott (note the spelling) was the Bishop of Durham for eleven years, from 1890 to his death, and Fenton John Anthony Hort was a theologian, with emphasis on languages, Patristics, and the other Ante-Nicene Fathers.

Straw Man...and also proven wrong by archeology.

I am not wrong, cott and Hort were two guys who claimed to be Jews outwardly but were not ones inwardly.

They are wolves in sheeps clothing, God warned us of these people.
Cott and Hort were were not Christians so to say. They were not Saints.

They are two men who created the NKJV and all the other bibles are written off it.

Please watch this documentary exposing this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA3GRy7znbA

prodromos · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
Have you got the original Greek word?

Yes

I know there are Alexandrian manuscripts and if your Greek comes from that then you have corruption.

All the available manuscripts have no difference when it comes to the word "χριστιανός"

Do you know the original manuscripts?

Trick question? No one knows the original manuscripts, but through textual criticism we are confident that we know the content of the original manuscripts, and it is only through textual criticism we can confidently know which manuscripts are corrupted.

prodromos · Feb 12, 2015

IamNazarene said:
Vince53 is correct I have the original reprint of Tyndales bible. THe word Christian is actually written Christen.

So does Wycliffe's translation. That is how "christian" is spelled in medieval English, which is a Germanic language, having nothing to do with the French as you erroneously claimed at the outset.

The word Christian means

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