The Voice

[Malleeboy]

Phillip,

I think you are underplaying Australia; I agree that we have many weaknesses, however like the cliche saying "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest", can be applied to Australia as a country.

We have amongst the longest continuous democracies in the world (I'd argue that given our constituent states are still in some sense sovereign entities and did not cease to be democracies by federating, we should predate for example NZ on the lists.)
We are the only continent-wide country, we federated peacefully, we have had no civil wars.
We have amongst the highest per capita median wealth and are in the top five in average wealth.
Superannuation has been a massive successful government program.
Our universal health and pharmaceutical schemes are amongst the world's best.
Native title and other forms of native title already cover over 50% of our country.

I could write a list of failures just as long, but I think that is true of any country, people make mistakes but I think we have done better than many.

Now the gap between non-indigenous and indigenous outcomes is a blight, but it hasn't been a lack of funds per se. We just can't get the outcomes. However, from my perspective we have already tried the Voice solution, it was called ATSIC, and was mired in corruption. So, we are purposing to create a body to mirror ATSIC but ensure no matter how badly it runs, it can't be sacked.
Furthermore, the Māori, despite having all the things that even the most radical voices call for in Australia, have almost identical outcomes in life span
I would highlight that Indigenous Australians have a longer life span than any pacific islanders expect for Tonga which is about equal. Despite these islanders having sovereignty, own parliaments etc.

If it would guarantee fixing the gap, I would happily pay specific tax etc. I would vote Jacinta Price as PM and make Warren Mundine GG.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Well, it's all over but the shouting (the blame game and the endless analyiss by talking heads).

The Referendum on "The Voice" received an overall "No" vote across alll states and territories except for the Australian Capital Territory.

To be effective there must be a national majority and also a majority in four of the six states (Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia and Western Australia). For some reason the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) and the Northern Territory are not counted as "states" although in my opinion they should be. I can understand why they weren't counted as "states" in the early days of the Commonwealth, but times have changed.

The ACT tends to be left wing as it has a lot of federal public servants. I remember a former neighbour who'd been in the navy and then managed a tyre store in Canberra. He said the people there weren't very sympathetic to private enterprise. Mind you that was his opinion and he was there a long time ago, but it makes a certain amount of sense.

I watched a bit of the follow up on the ABC but I switched off once the blame game started.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Post Script - one of the surprises to me was the fact that the Northern Territory (NT) had a significant "No" vote - with 41% counted the "No" vote was 61.7% and the "Yes" vote was 38.3%.

This is despite the fact that the indigenous population of the NT is supposed to be 30.8% of the total population.

It seems to me then that a significant portion of the NT indigenous people also voted "No" although of course I don't know the actual figures.

Population - Northern Territory Economy

The Northern Territory’s population is much younger and more mobile than Australia’s general population. Here is analysis on key components of NT’s population growth.

nteconomy.nt.gov.au

Based on 2021 Census:

• at 30 June 2021, there were an estimated 76,487 Aboriginal people living in the NT, representing approximately 30.8% of the NT’s population and 7.8% of the national Aboriginal population

This was one of the weakness of the "Yes" position - there were some well known indigenous figures who were arguing for the "No" vote.

I thought one of the speakers on the ABC analysis tonight summed it up pretty well - the "Yes" campaign was based too much on emotion and not enough on detail. We had no idea how the thing was supposed to work, so most of us said "No".

 

[Philip_B]

We are the only continent-wide country, we federated peacefully, we have had no civil wars.

On 22 May 1856, the bicameral New South Wales Parliament opened and sat for the first time.

We are the only continent-wide country, we federated peacefully, we have had no civil wars.

The USA is pretty much Continent-wide, and Russia encompasses the whole width of Asia and the European bit. Not that I suggest we should emulate either jurisdiction. Some questions are raised by the Civil War claim, given that a Civil War does not have to be white men fighting white men.

The Referendum on "The Voice" received an overall "No" vote across alll states and territories except for the Australian Capital Territory.

Canberra is unique in that it is the only part of the nation where it rains money once a fortnight. This is the second time, in recent note, where the nation's Capital has shown itself marching to the beat of a different drum from the rest of the nation.

I would vote Jacinta Price as PM and make Warren Mundine GG.

We could do, and I suspect we have done, worse.

This was one of the weakness of the "Yes" position - there were some well known indigenous figures who were arguing for the "No" vote.

I thought one of the speakers on the ABC analysis tonight summed it up pretty well - the "Yes" campaign was based too much on emotion and not enough on detail. We had no idea how the thing was supposed to work, so most of us said "No".

The First Peoples of our nation should not be seen as a one-ticket label, and effectively if you had read the background document that the Prime Minister (in)famously claimed not have have read, you would have seen some clear voices saying that they did not want to be represented by urban dwellers.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I had this paragraph in my OP above. Readers might have been surprised to know that the ACT and NT are not Australian states.

To be effective there must be a national majority and also a majority in four of the six states (Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia and Western Australia). For some reason the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) and the Northern Territory (NT) are not counted as "states" although in my opinion they should be. I can understand why they weren't counted as "states" in the early days of the Commonwealth, but times have changed.

The reason for this is that Australia became a federated nation in 1901 when the constitution took effect. At that time neither the ACT or the NT existed. The ACT was a part of New South Wates and the Northern Territory was then part of South Australia.

when was teh australian constituion ratified - Google Search

The Australian Constitution was then passed as part of a British Act of Parliament in 1900, and took effect on 1 January 1901. A British Act was necessary because before 1901 Australia was a collection of six self-governing British colonies and ultimate power over those colonies rested with the British Parliament.

It wasn't till 1911 that both places became legal entities in their own right, but they have never been classified as states in the Costitution. Way back then they were both effectively public service entities and while Canberra still basically is, the Northern Territory's economy is now far less dependent on the federal government's direct control.

It's high time they became states in my opinion, but that would require another referendum to change the constitution. I think the federal politicians and the public would not be in the mood for that to happen anytime soon.

Northern Territory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On 1 January 1911, a decade after federation, the Northern Territory was separated from South Australia, alongside the Australian Capital Territory from NSW, and transferred to federal control.

 

[Malleeboy]

There would be multiple impacts with making them states.

Firstly, how many senators do the territories get, only original states are guaranteed the full equal number (currently 12). NT did have a referendum for statehood, but it was narrowly defeated partly due to only 3 senators being offered not 12.

If you give them 12 each, you would leave the Senate as being even more "unrepresentative swill". a majority of Senators would from onyl 22% of the population.
Issues with the link between number of House of Rep's vs senators in double dissolutions. House is supposed to have around double the number of members compared to the Senate, adding another 24 senators, would mean adding around 48 more members in the H of Reps members.

You have also missed the other inhabited territories...

Jervis Bay is our 3rd mainland territory (everyone forgets)

Then there is our external territories
Norfolk Is
Cocos/Keeling Is
Christmas Is

 

[Bob Crowley]

Jervis Bay is our 3rd mainland territory (everyone forgets)

Then there is our external territories
Norfolk Is
Cocos/Keeling Is
Christmas Is

I don't think we forget that Jervis Bay is a territory. Most of us would never have been aware of it, and I'm one of them. You can't forget something you didn't know in the first place.

I wouldn't consider attempting to make any of the other territories into states as they're too small, but I think the Northern Territory (230,000 people and GDP of about 26 billion dollars) and the ACT (430,000 people and GDP of about $40 billion dollars) both warrant consideration.

Obviously a referendum would have to address multiple issues as you've pointed out. I still think it could be done.

But it would need far more detailed clarification than "The Voice"!