Wow--this thread really picked up the activity in the two days since I was gone.
StillSmallVoice, I really appreciate your input on the matter (and not just because we are of the same mind, not only in the readiness to use force, but also in strongly advocating a cool head when packing heat). It's very interesting to hear a present-day Israeli's point of view, especially since self-defense is more of a day-in, day-out fact of life over there than it is in most places over here.
I really liked the point you made about the passage in the Law where it says "ye shall live by them." That is some real food for thought, both in terms of use of force, as well in restraint therefrom.
And the Israelis know about restraint. I was extremely impressed at how they composed themselves in light of the Scud attacks during the first Gulf War. And I believe it was a contributing factor in the first victory over Iraq.
And for Tawhano's views on Jesus' words to the soldiers--excellent. Alvin York faced the very same dilemma when he was drafted in Worlf War I, and came to a very similar conclusion. Thanks for sharing your personal account of your wrestling with the matter.
Of course, this doesn't mean that I count the "doves'" views as illegitimate. Quite the contrary--I believe that the Lord has made provision for those who choose that side of the camp as well. In fact, as stillsmallvoice pointed out by the disqualification of a priest who has shed man's blood (even lawfully) from the duties of the high priest, that choice of action (not shedding blood) seems to be the higher route to take.
Thanks also for the historical background someone else had made about the lack of historical evidence that the churches fought back when persecuted in the early centuries.
But here's another historical anomaly--Gen. Nathaniel Green. Quaker by birth and upbringing (and their pacifist stance is well-known), yet he played an important role in the armed defense of this country. But now we're leaving the scope of the thread, going from small-scale personal defense to national defense. But I think the lesson found then is the same on the personal level--there is provision for defense. But, as someone else pointed out, in the proper time.
jth
PS: Aradia, how do your execrations help lift us poor Americans out of our quagmire of vulgarity?
PPS: If I may, I'd recommend the two books Robert Waters published about self defense. One's called Best Defense, which has made its way into a lot of homes of gun owners. He's published another one rather recently with more of the same real-life stories of those who saved lives with the use of a firearm.
It may be of interest to believers that Mr. Waters is also a deacon (I believe) of his church out in Ocala, FL.
StillSmallVoice, I really appreciate your input on the matter (and not just because we are of the same mind, not only in the readiness to use force, but also in strongly advocating a cool head when packing heat). It's very interesting to hear a present-day Israeli's point of view, especially since self-defense is more of a day-in, day-out fact of life over there than it is in most places over here.
I really liked the point you made about the passage in the Law where it says "ye shall live by them." That is some real food for thought, both in terms of use of force, as well in restraint therefrom.
And the Israelis know about restraint. I was extremely impressed at how they composed themselves in light of the Scud attacks during the first Gulf War. And I believe it was a contributing factor in the first victory over Iraq.
And for Tawhano's views on Jesus' words to the soldiers--excellent. Alvin York faced the very same dilemma when he was drafted in Worlf War I, and came to a very similar conclusion. Thanks for sharing your personal account of your wrestling with the matter.
Of course, this doesn't mean that I count the "doves'" views as illegitimate. Quite the contrary--I believe that the Lord has made provision for those who choose that side of the camp as well. In fact, as stillsmallvoice pointed out by the disqualification of a priest who has shed man's blood (even lawfully) from the duties of the high priest, that choice of action (not shedding blood) seems to be the higher route to take.
Thanks also for the historical background someone else had made about the lack of historical evidence that the churches fought back when persecuted in the early centuries.
But here's another historical anomaly--Gen. Nathaniel Green. Quaker by birth and upbringing (and their pacifist stance is well-known), yet he played an important role in the armed defense of this country. But now we're leaving the scope of the thread, going from small-scale personal defense to national defense. But I think the lesson found then is the same on the personal level--there is provision for defense. But, as someone else pointed out, in the proper time.
jth
PS: Aradia, how do your execrations help lift us poor Americans out of our quagmire of vulgarity?
PPS: If I may, I'd recommend the two books Robert Waters published about self defense. One's called Best Defense, which has made its way into a lot of homes of gun owners. He's published another one rather recently with more of the same real-life stories of those who saved lives with the use of a firearm.
It may be of interest to believers that Mr. Waters is also a deacon (I believe) of his church out in Ocala, FL.
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