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The Upward Mobility Myth

DaveyD

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Maybe we don't all have the same opportunities

According to our founding document and our national myth, we are all created equal and then it's up to us. Inequality in material things is mitigated in two ways: first, by equal opportunity at the start, and, second, by full civil equality despite material differences. We don't claim to have achieved all this, but these are our national goals and we are always moving toward them.

The 20th century added two somewhat vaguer elements to the myth. One is that even material inequality will be limited, at the bottom end, by social guarantees against absolute deprivation or vertiginous plunges. Another is that prosperity will gradually make us all more equal even in the material sense.


Three of the nation's top newspapers have been examining the national myth recently. The Wall Street Journal has looked at social mobility. In recent decades, financial inequality has been increasing, not shrinking. That didn't matter, many said, because studies show a constant shuffling of the deck.

Where you are today says little about where you might be tomorrow and even less about where your offspring will be in 25 years.

But it turns out these studies were flawed. Where you are is the best predictor of where your children will be. And immobility over generations is what congeals financial differences into old-fashioned, European-style social class.

The Journal series included a wonderful story, straight out of Trollope, about a vulgar arriviste trying to crash the absurd charity ball society of Palm Springs.

Less fun, but more telling, was a New York Times piece comparing three victims of heart attacks. The series has been especially good at capturing the subtle ways in which privilege manifests itself and gets transmitted over generations. It's not just money. It's not just IQ or education or blue blood or even good values. It's how all these combine into knowing which hospital to ask for when the ambulance arrives.

The Los Angeles Times takes over with a scary look at downward mobility. The national myth imagines the ascent from poverty to the middle class as a ratchet. But sliding out of middle-class prosperity is getting easier every day.

You can do it by losing your job, as the result of an accident or other health emergency, by squandering your savings. Globalization and technology may make everyone better off on average (I believe they do), but they land like a boulder on individuals who lose their jobs to foreigners and machines. Healthcare becomes more costly and employers get stingier about paying for it. And President Bush wants to make Social Security more of an opportunity to do well and less of a guarantee against doing disastrously. In short, if insurance means shifting risks from individuals to society, what has been going on lately is the opposite: shifting risks from society back onto the individual.

Of the many questions raised by all this, the most pressing is: What happened to the Washington Post? If the Post wants in on the discussion, there are still rich veins to mine. For example, it might reexamine the role of civil equality as a consolation prize for economic inequality.

This conceit seems to be eroding in two ways. First, money is playing an ever-larger role in the mechanics of democracy. Second, whole areas of life that were part of everyday democracy have fallen to the empire of money.

People increasingly go to schools with people of their own class, live in class-sifted neighborhoods, hold their Fourth of July picnics in their own backyards rather than the public park.

Meanwhile, despite months of superb reporting by three great newspapers, the question of how closely our national reality resembles our national myth remains open.

Does it matter whether your place in life is determined by your IQ or your schooling or your parents' wallets — all of which are beyond your control? As we learn more about the human mind, even qualities such as self-discipline seem to be a matter of genes, not grit.

The problem, in short, may not be that reality is receding from the national myth. The problem may be the myth.
 

Maynard Keenan

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"We all have the same opportunities... too many choose not to take the chance or put in the effort."

That IS the myth. That all those with talent and effort will succeed. Too many will take the chance, have what it takes and FAIL. Others have the will but not the talent. It is hard to feel sorry for those with talent but not will but they do not represent all those who "fail" in a society. For the most part you are born into a socio-economic status and the odds of moving out of it are very slim.
 
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lucid42day

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Maynard Keenan said:
That IS the myth. That all those with talent and effort will succeed. Too many will take the chance, have what it takes and FAIL. Others have the will but not the talent. It is hard to feel sorry for those with talent but not will but they do not represent all those who "fail" in a society. For the most part you are born into a socio-economic status and the odds of moving out of it are very slim.
I thought about this for a bit. For me at least, it was the easiest thing in the world to finally follow in the sorts of professions my father had. I never really thought about it like that. It was kind of tough when I tried to do something different.
 
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humuhumunukunukuapua'a

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arnegrim said:
We all have the same opportunities... too many choose not to take the chance or put in the effort.
I would like to say anyone can succeed but there are always exceptions to the rule.

And we do not all have the same opportunity. My father is a good man with many friends. I have attended a private school witch gave me access to more affluent people. An example from my life would be I just recently had one of my friend’s fathers, a very successful accountant mention to my parents that he hoped I would become interested in accounting and earn my degree in it. After this he hoped that I and some other graduate would come work for him and then after a while buy the business. There are other similar opportunities that I could find. Would someone in a project in a big city in a single parent household have this type of opportunity? I do not believe they would.

Does this mean I think they can not succeed in life? No, I think they can succeed, and for most people they can go very far in life if they set there mind to it. However there will always be some who no matter how hard they try will fail, and some who do not deserve it will become very wealthy. Luck may be when preparation meats opportunity, put some people with less preparation have a lot more opportunity and vice versa.
 
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lucid42day said:
I thought about this for a bit. For me at least, it was the easiest thing in the world to finally follow in the sorts of professions my father had. I never really thought about it like that. It was kind of tough when I tried to do something different.

I'm going to school now, but I'm looking at a career either in law enforcement or the military. Incidentally, my dad works in cable television. :p

:scratch:

I fail to see a connection there.
 
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Borealis

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:yawn: More scare tactics designed to increase class envy and class warfare. Why do people worry so much about how other people are succeeding in life? And what is necessary to define success? My mother recently bought her first home, at the age of 60. She's also working full-time in a nursing home, and saving up for her retirement. She's by no means rich, but she's certainly not envious of other people, and never has been. It's HER life, and she's making the best of it. If that's not success, what is?

Worry about yourself, not about what other people are doing.
 
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neverforsaken

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those who fail do so by thier own faults. many things can be attributed to failure, primarily a lack of planning and lack of motivation. Ill take my dads friend for example of someone who refused to give up. This man has a family, a wife and three kids all of them quite young. He attended college full time with my father, while working two jobs to pay the rent in his hawaii apartment (we have the highest rent in the whole country) He did this without rest for 4 years. he finally graduated and got a state job and makes over 75 grand a year. My uncle is currently in college. he works two full time jobs and has two kids(3 and 6)and a divorced wife. he plans to be a business owner or a resturant one day. I cannot look at others who have less responsibilities and claim that they arent getting a fair deal with any respect what so ever. In life, you can only blame yourself for your own failings. to do otherwise is a sick and disgusting lifestyle that will always be consumed by failure. and i just so happen to know someone just like that. only one word can describe her. pathetic. She blames others for her failures and leeches off everyone she can find. a 34 year old brat. you need a trade? go to school. you need money? save up a few hunder to learn how to write a business grant proposal. My views are no doubt one sided. but i only go on what i have witnessed. and that is the time tested idea that those who extend themselves and never quit succeed and those who dont try enough fail. call it social darwinism if you will.
 
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arnegrim

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Maynard Keenan said:
"We all have the same opportunities... too many choose not to take the chance or put in the effort."

That IS the myth. That all those with talent and effort will succeed. Too many will take the chance, have what it takes and FAIL. Others have the will but not the talent. It is hard to feel sorry for those with talent but not will but they do not represent all those who "fail" in a society. For the most part you are born into a socio-economic status and the odds of moving out of it are very slim.

And that mindset will keep you right where you are... I hope you enjoy it.
 
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arnegrim

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humuhumunukunukuapua'a said:
I would like to say anyone can succeed but there are always exceptions to the rule.

And we do not all have the same opportunity. My father is a good man with many friends. I have attended a private school witch gave me access to more affluent people. An example from my life would be I just recently had one of my friend’s fathers, a very successful accountant mention to my parents that he hoped I would become interested in accounting and earn my degree in it. After this he hoped that I and some other graduate would come work for him and then after a while buy the business. There are other similar opportunities that I could find. Would someone in a project in a big city in a single parent household have this type of opportunity? I do not believe they would.

Does this mean I think they can not succeed in life? No, I think they can succeed, and for most people they can go very far in life if they set there mind to it. However there will always be some who no matter how hard they try will fail, and some who do not deserve it will become very wealthy. Luck may be when preparation meats opportunity, put some people with less preparation have a lot more opportunity and vice versa.

When does 'opportunity' mean everything has to be identical? With high-powered friends one would have a better chance of those positions... but that does not limit anyone without high-powered friends from that kind of 'success'.
 
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arnegrim

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Redneck said:
I'm going to school now, but I'm looking at a career either in law enforcement or the military. Incidentally, my dad works in cable television. :p

:scratch:

I fail to see a connection there.

I know a brick-layers son who never went to college... is now retired in his early 40's making over $2 million a year.
 
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james_

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For it is written.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6

Without struggle and strife, how would any of us build character?
Read Genesis, Isiac's son Joseph was sold into slavery by his own brothers.. accused of rape and thrown into jail. Did this not build the character necessary to be where GOD needed him? There are two sides to every story.

Grace is somthing that you are given that you surely do not deserve, do not judge God by his people... Leave the judging to The Almighty... Ghandi is a fool.
 
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HouseApe

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The vast majority of people are limited by their parents. The way you grow up is generally your minimum expectation in life. If your parents don't value education, you probably won't either. If you are raised in a slum, you know how to get by in a slum, and anything else is often different and frightening.

If at age 20, your parents have left without an education, no money and no contacts, then the probability that you will ever be wealthy is infinitesimally small. On the other hand if you grew up wealthy, get a Harvard education, your parents give you the money to start a business, and the contacts to make it successful, the probability that you won't be wealthy is infinitesimally small.

Bill Gates is not a great success story. His father was a multimillionaire who gave him the money to buy DOS, and his mother was a socialite who introduced him to the man at IBM who eventually made the decision to use DOS. He started out rich, his parents expected him to do something with his life, and gave him the money and opportunity to do so. No big deal.

The best social program the government could ever implement would be one that would teach people how to overcome their minimum expectations. Teach the value of education, create networks to introduce financiers and business managers with people who have great ideas. Teach people how to get involved with the network.

People here shouldn't blame the poor for being poor. It is all they know. Would Jesus cast dispersions on them or teach them how to fish?
 
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Vylo

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And that mindset will keep you right where you are... I hope you enjoy it.


The terminology for that would be resignation. It is one thing to realize how much of your current position is determined by outside forces. It is another to resign yourself to the fact that you can never overcome them. Just because you realize a system is bent against you, and that you were dealt a terrible hand in life, doesn't mean you have to accept that it has determined your fate. Just be aware that you are going to have a harder time, you are going to need additional help to get going, you may need to put in additional effort.

I'm not saying those who are poor deserve it, and the great bulk of them certainly do not. But you can't let the fact that you are unfortunate get the best of you. And the more fortunate cannot forget their obligation to help those people get started.

Both sides of the aisle are missing one of those realizations.
 
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ZaraDurden

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Borealis said:
Worry about yourself, not about what other people are doing.
And it is this line that is the main problem in America is the past 30+ years. When everyone only worries about him/herself, that is what leads to the rich getting richer and the poor getting poor, increased class division and the shrinking middle class all of which we see happening today.

If you do love America, and you believe that people should be 'equal', some sense of economic equality, quite by necessity, is a part of that.

Its funny, the reality of this 'you make your own bed in life' myth is the leader of this myth, the leader of our counntry! Here is a man who, by almost no efforts of his own, has become the most known man in the world. He was never a good student, a drunk until age 40, knows little to nothing about the world outside of his immediacy, is a very poor public speaker, and yet is put in charge of the nation why--because of his last name!

I know many people who are infinately harder working, more intelligent, better communicators, etc etc could be a better president, but do they get the chance? No, of course not.

I know the office of President may seem like a 'special case', but it is in fact indicative of the whole system. The people who 'make their own bed' so to speak, are the exception to the rule. Most people have a very limited number of options in their life, and can only share part of part of the blame for their situation. And Im not talking your brother's friend who dropped out of college, im talking inner city kids whom has never even considered college. They dont have the money for college, their parents, teachers nor peer have never really helped them aspire to college--its just not a reality.
 
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humuhumunukunukuapua'a

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arnegrim said:
When does 'opportunity' mean everything has to be identical?
I was only replying to you saying everyone has the same opportunities. I believe almost everyone can succeed. However I believe some will have to work harder at it then others.
With high-powered friends one would have a better chance of those positions... but that does not limit anyone without high-powered friends from that kind of 'success'.
I agree with that, it just will not be as easy.
 
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Maynard Keenan

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arnegrim said:
And that mindset will keep you right where you are... I hope you enjoy it.

I enjoy it very much. I was born into a strong, educated middle class family. I have been taught how to suceed andhave been given all the tools necessary. My parents and grandparents have taught me and have shown me. I have been sent to good schools. All I have to do is say yep I want it and I have it.

Take Jimmy, born to poor, uneducated parents. Jimmy's parents don't have time to teach him much because they work all the time to make it by and they aren't that educated anyway. Coincidentally they can't afford childcare so while they're in work and he is not in school, he spends his time by himself or "learning" form older kids. He goes to a school thats subpar, with subpar teachers, and it just isn't a good environment to succeed in.

Now tell me. Do Jimmy and I have an equal chance to succeed? Would it take the same motivation from me and Jimmy to succeed? Who is more likely to put forth time and effort but still fail? Is either fated to turn out a certain way? Of course not. Many people can change their situation through hard work. The myth is that everyone can and that people only fail because of their own faults. In a society of winners and losers there must be losers. And those who start off winners aren't likely to lose.
 
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OhhJim

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Maynard Keenan said:
In a society of winners and losers there must be losers.

Is it a given that this is true of our society? That is, why must there be only winners and losers? Why can't there be a whole bunch of neither?

I suggest that the American Middle Class is so large that it would take extraordinary effort or luck to move up.
 
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Nikos100

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arnegrim said:
We all have the same opportunities... too many choose not to take the chance or put in the effort.

Let me fathom a guess, your a 'Libertarian', the same kind of people that believe that Air should be turned into a commodity to be bought and sold.

Tell me, with such a pure market structure. How do you avoid creating such a burdgeoning underclass even biggest than the global one we have now? Libertarianism (and I use the word in it's stolen form), not only causes to create a giant underclass. It Needs one to survive!
 
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james_

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dont let offense hold you back from your walk with god, your heart is like gold in its pure state it is soft (malleable) but when you clutter it with offense and other worldly things it is filled with impurity, becoming hardened and more easily corroded. Let God purify your heart so that you man be closer to his greatness, quit letting you past hurt you. Give it to God!

When once the master of the house has risen up, and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside, and to knock at the door, saying,'Lord, Lord, open to us!' then he will answer and tell you,'I don't know you or where you come from.'
Luke 13:25
 
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