The unpardonable sin

[kristina411]

I'm sure its been done before but I wanted to touch on this subject.

I have heard different, and confusing, explanations of what exactly blasphemy of the holy spirit is. When I look in the NT I find it in both Matthew and Mark (Mark is currently my study book which is how I came about this post).
In both Jesus tells that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unpardonable sin. He says this after the scribes(according to Mark-Pharisees according to Matthew) accuse Him of using Beelzebub to cast out demons. So Jesus gives His speech on "A house divided cannot stand."
I like to read before and after verses so I can be aware of the situation. So we are in a situation where men of religious (worldly) authority are accusing Jesus of using evil to cast out demons. Jesus is explaining that it would be impossible.

So in Matthew 12:31-32 it says:
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

In Mark we find it 3:28-30 it says:
28 Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 "but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation." - 30 because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."

Now what I put in bold is not like that in the bible but is used to show the huge differences in determining what exactly blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. In Matthew we are told that blasphemy again the Son of Man (Jesus- and I'm confused by this but another post for another day) is forgivable, just not against the Holy Spirit. Now the Holy Spirit had not been sent down at this time.
But if you switch over to Mark, the sons of men will be forgiven for blasphemy. There is a huge difference (shows just how big of a difference two interpretations can make something). It appears as if Jesus is the one whom blasphemy against is unforgivable. Yes it says Holy Spirit but considering the trinity and considering the last verse provided in Mark says "because they said, "He has an unclean spirit." This appears as if Jesus was directing his words to the scribes/pharisees and they were the ones making offenses.

So considering The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one, and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, and they were speaking against the ones blaspheming against Jesus, we are to assume that all blasphemies against the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are unpardonable correct? This is my take on this. It did not say Father or the Son but in Mark it appears as if they are speaking of both Son and Holy Spirit and the Father would not be excluded correct? And if all 3 are 1, blasphemy against one would be blasphemy against all correct?

So in Matthew where we read blasphemy against the Son of Man will be forgiven we are to believe Matthew interpreted the meaning differently?
Ideas? Anything to support or discount this?

 

[Bramwell]

Hi Kristina,

If we look at Matthew 12, we see that the context of the passage in question is Jesus healing a blind and mute man with a demon. Jesus performs this healing by the power of God, i.e. by God's Holy Spirit. The hypocritical Pharisees reacted to Jesus' spirit-led healing by saying Jesus' spirit was demonic.

What Jesus seems to be saying in the exchange is that people can be forgiven for calling Jesus a demon. If the Pharisees had called JESUS a demon, they could have been forgiven for that (if they later repented of that sin).

But the Pharisees did something even worse, according to Jesus. They called Jesus' SPIRIT demonic. In other words, God can forgive someone for speaking against Jesus the person. But anyone who claims that the spirit of love which lived in Jesus is demonic, cannot be forgiven for such a thing.

There is some support for that perspective found a couple of places in the gospels. One example is in Matthew 7:21-23. There Jesus mentions not everyone who calls Jesus "Lord" will be saved, but rather those who obey Him.

Another example is in Matthew 25:31-46, with the parable of the sheep and the goats. There we see that it's no so important what one thinks of Jesus, but rather the spirit they are led by in their actions.

In short, non-believers can be forgiven for saying an evil thing against Jesus if they later repent. But it seems, from what Jesus said, that they cannot be forgiven for saying an evil thing against the Holy Spirit, e.g. calling the Holy Spirit a demonic one.

 

[Josie Adams]

I am interested in what everyone has to say about this one too Kristina. I have wondered the same things.

 

[kristina411]

Thank you so much for raking time to reply. I really appreciate your time.

Hi Kristina,

If we look at Matthew 12, we see that the context of the passage in question is Jesus healing a blind and mute man with a demon. Jesus performs this healing by the power of God, i.e. by God's Holy Spirit. The hypocritical Pharisees reacted to Jesus' spirit-led healing by saying Jesus' spirit was demonic.

What Jesus seems to be saying in the exchange is that people can be forgiven for calling Jesus a demon. If the Pharisees had called JESUS a demon, they could have been forgiven for that (if they later repented of that sin).

But the Pharisees did something even worse, according to Jesus. They called Jesus' SPIRIT demonic. In other words, God can forgive someone for speaking against Jesus the person. But anyone who claims that the spirit of love which lived in Jesus is demonic, cannot be forgiven for such a thing.

What confuses me about this perspective is- How would one talk badly about Jesus, apart from His physical form, without it being against His spirit? If one said anything about the qualities of Jesus, who He was, they would be making a claim against His Spirit. So how could one say anything against Him, unless about his body, without blaspheming against His spirit?

There is some support for that perspective found a couple of places in the gospels. One example is in Matthew 7:21-23. There Jesus mentions not everyone who calls Jesus "Lord" will be saved, but rather those who obey Him.

I am trying to understand your post, please don't take this the wrong way because I am truly looking for truth. I actually love Matthew 7:21-23. Those were some of the first verses that hit home with me when I started to really draw closer to God. But I took those verses to say that not everyone who calls on His name, not everyone who claims to be a follower, will be saved. That it is not enough to believe but you have to also do the will of the Father. So I'm just confused about this verses relevance, if you could connect these dots? I just started on my coffee so I'm having trouble keeping up.

Another example is in Matthew 25:31-46, with the parable of the sheep and the goats. There we see that it's no so important what one thinks of Jesus, but rather the spirit they are led by in their actions.

In short, non-believers can be forgiven for saying an evil thing against Jesus if they later repent. But it seems, from what Jesus said, that they cannot be forgiven for saying an evil thing against the Holy Spirit, e.g. calling the Holy Spirit a demonic one.

In Matthew 25:31-46 I do see how they refrence Jesus to the Son of Man but I wonder if perhaps Matthew was confused, or the interpreter of Matthew, on the meaning of the Son of Man in some areas. I may be wrong and that's why I'm here. But in this section Jesus talks about judgement and that he will separate his she's from the goats. He will tell the goats that they did not feed Him when He was hungry, or clothe Him when He was naked etc. And the goats asked when he was hungry or naked and Jesus said when any of the less of the sheep were hungry or naked and they did not give food or clothes that it was done to Jesus. The righteous are the goats, but they did not do for others.
The thing with those verses though is that Jesus says 45"Then He will answer them saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'"
So if in this section, he is saying what is done to His brothers is done to Him, and in John when speaking of the coming of the Holy Spirit he says we are in Him and Him in the Father, perhaps when it says "The Son of Man" in the beginning of the passages in Matthew 25:31-46, perhaps in translation it was said in a way to which Jesus was judge but with us in Him, so what was done to and by us be justified. I honestly dont know though. These questions are why I am trying to look more thoroughly into scripture. I'm also confused on the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven, and its difference, if there is one?

 

[gideons300]

Here is my take for what it is worth.

Speaking against Jesus as the son of manis simply a man in the flesh judging another man in the flesh. He does not see Jesus as who He really is. Forgivable.

What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit? He will not speak of Himself but is to reveal that Jesus is the Son of God. The Spirit whispers to the hearts of all men to repent and believe, put their trust in Christ and His atonement, for the atonement was for all men. All.

But if men, faced with the truth that Jesus is BOTH the son of man AND the Son of God, and yet refuses the offer from the Spirit of God, then the only option left is to die in ones sins. That sin can't be forgiven. That sin will not be a one time thing. Our lifetime will testify for or against us. It is what we do in the end that truly determines whether or not we have committed blasphemy of the Spirit. Saul, before he became Paul, kicked against the pricks of the Holy Spirit but in the end relented, repented and believed.

Christians worry if they perhaps said a word or did an action that was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The very fact that they are worried about it is proof they have not, praise God! In their great concern, they are acknowledging that Jesus IS the son of God, and whatever they have said or done that has caused them to fear can be confessed and forgiven. What a weight lifted!

I hope that helps. What blew me away is that I realized that Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world. Every sin can be forgiven, no matter how twisted, how heinous. But if a man, when presented with the revelation truth by the Holy Spirit of the cross and what the son of God did (not just the son of man), and he hardens his heart and refuses the offer, that sin cannot be forgiven.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Josie Adams]

Here is my take for what it is worth.

Speaking against Jesus as the son of manis simply a man in the flesh judging another man in the flesh. He does not see Jesus s who He really is. Forgivable.

What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit? He will not speak of Himself but is to reveal that Jesus is the Son of God. The Spirit whispers to the hearts of all men to repent and believe, put their trust in Christ and His atonement, for the atonement was for all men. All.

But if men, faced with the truth that Jesus is BOTH the son of man AND the Son of God, and yet refuses the offer from the Spirit of God, then the only option left is to die in ones sins. That sin can't be forgiven. That sin will not be a one time thing. Our lifetime will testify for or against us. It is what we do in the end that truly determines whether or not we have committed blasphemy of the Spirit. Saul, before he became Paul, kicked against the pricks of the Holy Spirit but in the end relented, repented and believed.

Christians worry if they perhaps said a word or did an action that was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The very fact that they are worried about it is proof they have not, praise God! In their great concern, they are acknowledging that Jesus IS the son of God, and whatever they have said or done that has caused them to fear can be confessed and forgiven. What a weight lifted!

I hope that helps. What blew me away is that I realized that Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world. Every sin can be forgiven, no matter how twisted, how heinous. But if a man, when presented with the truth by the Holy Spirit of the cross and what the son of God did (not just the son of man), and he hardens his heart and refuses the offer, and believes in his heart Jesus was just a man, no more, that sin cannot be forgiven.

I like this. Thanks!

 

[kristina411]

Here is my take for what it is worth.

Speaking against Jesus as the son of manis simply a man in the flesh judging another man in the flesh. He does not see Jesus s who He really is. Forgivable.

What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit? He will not speak of Himself but is to reveal that Jesus is the Son of God. The Spirit whispers to the hearts of all men to repent and believe, put their trust in Christ and His atonement, for the atonement was for all men. All.

But if men, faced with the truth that Jesus is BOTH the son of man AND the Son of God, and yet refuses the offer from the Spirit of God, then the only option left is to die in ones sins. That sin can't be forgiven. That sin will not be a one time thing. Our lifetime will testify for or against us. It is what we do in the end that truly determines whether or not we have committed blasphemy of the Spirit. Saul, before he became Paul, kicked against the pricks of the Holy Spirit but in the end relented, repented and believed.

Christians worry if they perhaps said a word or did an action that was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The very fact that they are worried about it is proof they have not, praise God! In their great concern, they are acknowledging that Jesus IS the son of God, and whatever they have said or done that has caused them to fear can be confessed and forgiven. What a weight lifted!

I hope that helps. What blew me away is that I realized that Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world. Every sin can be forgiven, no matter how twisted, how heinous. But if a man, when presented with the revelation truth by the Holy Spirit of the cross and what the son of God did (not just the son of man), and he hardens his heart and refuses the offer, that sin cannot be forgiven.

Blessings,

Gideon

I do like this, and I doubt the majority of Christians have committed the u pardonable sin or any blasphemy toward any of the trinity in fear. Most and this is wonderful. I just wish to understand more for understanding sake. I pray I am never tempted to blaspheme against any!

I wonder though, each time Jesus refers to Himself as Son of Man, is this how you believe He is speaking of Himself? His human part? But if so, what do you believe to be His human part and what His Spirit part? I know and believe He was fully human and fully God and that's not what Im asking. What I'm asking i guess is how would one go about distinguishing the parts, apart from physical form? If one was to blaspheme against it? I would never plan to, I am just trying to understand this concept. I doubt I will understand all of it overnight. Or is the Son of Man, the way those who have not found Him see Him, but to those who see the truth see that He is Son of God? See I'm having trouble here lol.

I should have waited until after my coffee. I dont know if I'm even making sense any more.

 

[Merlin]

The son of man means a descendant of adam

 

[Merlin]

The holy spirit is the power of God.
And so if you attribute the power to Satan you are blaspheming against the power of God or the Holy spirit

 

[kristina411]

The holy spirit is the power of God.
And so if you attribute the power to Satan you are blaspheming against the power of God or the Holy spirit

I can understand that. That helps greatly. Thank you!

 

[kristina411]

The son of man means a descendant of adam

Do you believe this to be the case in Matthew as well where it appears (Mark too I believe) Jesus is speaking of Himself?

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm not sure, but I think the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to declare the Holy Spirit or God, wicked and unjust, and not good, and I believe this will happen a lot during the last days...

 

[kristina411]

I'm not sure, but I think the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to declare the Holy Spirit or God, wicked and unjust, and not good, and I believe this will happen a lot during the last days...

This is happening now. Take a look in the philosophy thread. There is a thread on this site where that is all they are doing

 

[Bramwell]

Kristina wrote:

What confuses me about this perspective is- How would one talk badly about Jesus, apart from His physical form, without it being against His spirit? If one said anything about the qualities of Jesus, who He was, they would be making a claim against His Spirit. So how could one say anything against Him, unless about his body, without blaspheming against His spirit?

Hi Kristina,

First, I want to say that I can sense a sincere desire to know the truth coming from your posts, and I want to encourage that attitude in you. It's good. Truth often doesn't line up with our preconceptions, etc., and so it's important that our desire for truth remain even if we are shown personally to be wrong.

Now to address one of your questions... you ask how one could talk badly about Jesus without it being against His Spirit. I'll give you one example.

I know Muslims who don't believe Jesus is "the Christ". When such a person denies that Jesus is the Christ, they are "speaking a word against" Jesus.

But if they confess that, whether or not they believe Jesus to be the Christ, the Spirit which led Him to heal people and share good teachings with the public was a good spirit, they are NOT blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. It's only if such a person was to take it further, and say the Spirit behind Jesus' actions was evil, that they would then be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Just speaking against Jesus the person, while bad, is different.

Hopefully that better explains at least my perspective on that issue. Thanks.

 

[kristina411]

Kristina wrote:


Hi Kristina,

First, I want to say that I can sense a sincere desire to know the truth coming from your posts, and I want to encourage that attitude in you. It's good. Truth often doesn't line up with our preconceptions, etc., and so it's important that our desire for truth remain even if we are shown personally to be wrong.

Now to address one of your questions... you ask how one could talk badly about Jesus without it being against His Spirit. I'll give you one example.

I know Muslims who don't believe Jesus is "the Christ". When such a person denies that Jesus is the Christ, they are "speaking a word against" Jesus.

But if they confess that, whether or not they believe Jesus to be the Christ, the Spirit which led Him to heal people and share good teachings with the public was a good spirit, they are NOT blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. It's only if such a person was to take it further, and say the Spirit behind Jesus' actions was evil, that they would then be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Just speaking against Jesus the person, while bad, is different.

Hopefully that better explains at least my perspective on that issue. Thanks.

I understand that, thank you.
I do want to know the truth and i have learned a lot since starting my account here. There are so many helpful people here that have helps me to understand so much. You being one of them. Thank you for your post

 

[OldStudent]

…It appears as if Jesus is the one whom blasphemy against is unforgivable. Yes it says Holy Spirit but considering the trinity and considering the last verse provided in Mark says "because they said, "He has an unclean spirit." This appears as if Jesus was directing his words to the scribes/pharisees and they were the ones making offenses.
So considering The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one, and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, and they were speaking against the ones blaspheming against Jesus, we are to assume that all blasphemies against the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are unpardonable correct? This is my take on this. It did not say Father or the Son but in Mark it appears as if they are speaking of both Son and Holy Spirit and the Father would not be excluded correct? And if all 3 are 1, blasphemy against one would be blasphemy against all correct?
So in Matthew where we read blasphemy against the Son of Man will be forgiven we are to believe Matthew interpreted the meaning differently?
Ideas? Anything to support or discount this?

Let me suggest a picture to work with. The body is used as a model of the church and even of Christ’s relationship within it. So let’s play with that visualization at bit. For purposes of this illustration we will relate God to the central nervous system (CNS) of the body. Three parts. One system. One God. (Keep in mind every analogy has faults.) The brain (left and right hemispheres) and the spinal cord are classed as the major elements of the CNS. Now let’s match up: Father and Son – left and right hemispheres of the brain. The spinal cord relates to the Holy Spirit. We see that the brain provides much of the thought and control of the system. The spinal cord has some capability of direct intervention as well. Look what happens when the spinal cord gets damaged or cut. Messages cannot be passed between the brain and the body. Paralysis sets in. The brain wants things to happen but the message can’t get there. It’s amazing how the brain can often compensate for and overcome damage and injuries. The spinal cord is not so forgiving when injured. When people do things that shut down communication with God (ignore/silence the Holy Spirit) – they are in dire straits. They have lost the connestion for conviction and correction.

 

[Bramwell]

Hi Old Student,

I liked your analogy to describe the relationship between God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Thanks for sharing that.

Looking at what Jesus said about forgiveness for speaking against the Son but not the Spirit... it's clear to me that there is a difference. There is unity between the Son and the Spirit, but also a distinct difference.

Maybe it's the HUMANITY of Jesus the person which allows forgiveness for blasphemy, whereas with the Holy Spirit, there's no humanity in the mix. It's not a fleshly thing. It's simply a spirit.

I think that, if we are honest, it's hard for any of us to say with absolute certainty that we know what Jesus was saying in that passage. But a sincere look at the scriptures does point to the key idea being it's not Jesus the person that Jesus most wanted us to honor and respect, but rather the Spirit within that person (Jesus), which comes from the Father.

 

[Merlin]

Do you believe this to be the case in Matthew as well where it appears (Mark too I believe) Jesus is speaking of Himself?

Yes I do. The term"son of man "appears in the old testament too. It is translated from ben adam
ben meaning descendent of and adam referring to the man Adam.
my understanding would be Jesus identifying His humanity

 

[thepromiseofgrace]

I've always taken blaspheming the Holy spirit is denying whom the word of God the bible says Jesus is, basically the first blasphemy stated that the works that Jesus did the source of the power was satan, thus denying Jesus as God.
As the bible says the only way to the father is through the son, if you deny the son you cannot get to the father.
So though we focus on an unpardonable sin as some sort of action we do that could never be forgiven, which seems odd as we are told that Jesus died for all the sins of mankind, it seems to me denying Jesus is God, takes away any way to the father and is therefore unpardonable as you have nullified the sacrifice and the way.

 

[Bramwell]

Hi "Thepromiseofgrace",

I don't see how you've concluded, from the scriptures, that denying Jesus is God is the unpardonable sin. Jesus says expressly that one CAN be forgiven for speaking a word against Him. So how is it that you feel speaking against Jesus by saying He's not God is unpardonable? Do you mind clarifying? Thanks.