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yesterdog

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I do not agree with your conclusion, nor with the book you pasted from.

Indeed, because many Messianics have a lack of hermeneutics...they capitalize on what is Hebraic and fail on just about everything else. Fruchtenbaum is one of the few Messianic theologians who is consistent and doesn't manipulate the Words of Scripture to make himself think himself holier than those in "Christianity." It intrigues me how so many believe they honor the Law of Moses by breaking it apart and, in essence, they truly dishonor it, misunderstand it, belittle it, and open the floodgates of poor theology. A ROOD awakening, indeed.

yeshuasavedme said:
The unpardonable sin is...the world.

Ever care to look at the context??? I think that was the longest dissertation I've ever waded through, hoping that you would actually discuss the topic. But like Rood and Juster and most Messianics the obvious is rarely that...and that which is spiritual is never seen (or it is believed to be quacking like a duck in Toronto). How the pendulum swings. It's just too bad that more folks don't appreciate how balanced, and Scripturally grounded Fruchtenbaum is. Indeed, the health benefits of kashrut must be justified further by the naive belief that the rules are mandatory today....
 
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BereanTodd

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I too love Fruchtenbaum. Let me give my take on the unpardonable sin here, as I read/skimmed some that I'm not sure I totally agreed with, or at least that were far too wordy and confusing.

The unpardonable sin (heretofore to be referred to as US)can not be performed today. Look at the context of what is happening in Matthew. In the first 12 chapters you have Jesus being attested as Messiah. His birth from David shows it; his fulfillment of OT prophecy shows it; His sermon on the mount shows it; His miracles show it.

Now what was the early message that was being preached? Read Matthe 4:17 - Jesus message was "Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand." He was offering the Jews the Kingdom. Look into Matthew 10 when He first sent out the disciples. Notice Jesus' instructions in verses 5-7, He told them specifically to only go to Israel, to avoid any not of Israel, and what was the message? Again it was "Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand." Even later in Matthew He told the syro-pheonecian woman that He "came for the house of Israel." Jesus came offering the Kingdom.

Now with that background, look at what happens in Matthew 12.

22Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw.
23All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?"

The people had heard Yeshua's testimony of who He was. They had seen the miracles performed by the Holy Spirit through Christ. They were begining to wonder if this could be Messiah. But what happened next?


24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons."
25And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
27"If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29"Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come

Now the Pharisees come and try to get people stirred up that these miracles, which attested to Christ, were not from God but from the devil. That was the unpardonable sin. They had rejected the three-fold witness of God. The Father testified of Christ, Christ testified of Himself, and the works of the Holy Spirit testified to who He was. When John the Bpatist sent men to Jesus to ask if He was really the Christ what did Christ say? He gave His miracles as a defense of who He was. And it was those workings that these people were rejecting and attributing to Satan, and that was the unpardonable sin.

NOW PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY NEXT.The three most important things in reading Scripture are context, context and context. Notice what Jesus says just after his statement of the unpardonable sin, as we have come to call it.

33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.

34"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
35"The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.
36"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
37"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." 38Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."

39But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
40for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41"The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
42"The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.
43"Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it.
44"Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came'; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order. 45"Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation."

Time after time after time He condemned what at that time was "THIS generation". The unpardonable sin was a sin commited by the Jews of that day in rejecting the threefold witness of the godhead to who Christ was, and it would not be forgiven them, and it would be punished in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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yesterdog,
I did not say
The unpardonable sin is...the world.
perhaps you got my post confused with another?
-and I am not a "Messianic" in the sense you are using that word.
I am a born again Believer in the LORD Jesus Christ, who is the Living Spirit come in the human flesh of the New or second human being creation, the end, goal, finish, of the Law; as His New Man body is the Mercy Seat of heaven which Moses received the pattern of to copy to be the schoolmaster to instruct us of the heavenly truths which do not change, and all have their appointed season to be fulfilled.

I am a Gentile who has been grafted into the "Tree" the True Oil, the Root which bears His namesake nation, and Who has now come in flesh of the "New Man" as the Foundation Stone of the House for the glory of the Father to indwell in the regeneration....
He came to ransom the lost and restore the kingdom as the Legal Possessor of the kingdom by His Ransoming blood and to adopt the cleansed seed of His brother, Adam, and by that adoption He is then the New "Ish" and the Ishyah are those Adopted into His Living Spirit who will be regenerated in His New Man bodily image.

Genesis to revelation tells us the One Way back to being sons of God as we were first written in the Book of Life to be, in Adam -but not in Adam, the cut off -dead- spirit [Luke 3:38; Malachi 2:15]- but in The Living Spirit, Christ, who has come in the second human being creation called ISrael -versus Adam [Genesis 5:2; Isaiah 49] as Kinsman -which word is "Redeemer"- to be the New and only living "Ish" of this earth [which Adam was first made to be, to bring forth the sons of God for the Father's glory to indwell].

The namesake people were chosen from the Gentiles for the making of that name for the Father to indwell in His glory in the regeneration of all things.

The unpardonable sin is that blasphemy which is against the Holy Spirit's inner "revealing" to one, of the New Man's Name as our Only Salvation, and the denial of that Truth revealed inside is the unpardonable sin. There is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved; Salvation is in His name alone: Once knowing that Truth, then going after another way, or name, is unpardonable, and does despite to the Spirit of Grace.
Paul said he "blasphemed in ignorance"; so blasphemimg against the Name in "revealed knowledge" is that unpardonable sin; All other sins are forgivable.

Judas denied and quite plainly got [as recorded in Scripture] his name blotted out of the Book of Life; which has all names of the sons of Adam written in it, to be sons of God; but, since the fall, to be so in the ransom of them and the adoption of them by the Acceptable Sacrifice made for them in the fullness of times by the Kinsman, who does the duty of Kinsman and who is "YHWH"; in the second Person, come in second created human being flesh; who had the power and the will to perform the duty of Kinsman.
 
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rem994

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The unpardonable sin cannot be committed today.

Oh watch the fur fly on this one.
I had to laugh out loud on yur quote! hehehe

I really believe that you can committed the unpardonable sin and here is why.

If anyone dies not excepting Jesus as their Savior, has committed that great sin. God cannot nor will not except anyone who does not know Christ as their Lord and Savior. So, in a sense they have committed the unpardonable sin. That is a sin God himself can not forgive.

 
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jasper123

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Since when do we have to go to non christian sorces
to back up our belief, is there something wrong with
the Church.
Ron
 
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yesterdog

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I couldn't agree more.
 
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yesterdog

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yesterdog,
I did not say
perhaps you got my post confused with another?

Sorry, I may have confused posts. But I didn't see a solid Scriptural backing for what you think it is.


The Greek word is best translated as "end." You'll see James use the same word when he refers to "perfect." It is finality...supremacy...it is the end. I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just that "goal" is incorrect in my opinion. This take us to the Greek word that the KJV translated as "schoolmaster." The pedagogue in Greco/Roman/Judaic times was not the proper teacher, or schoolmaster. The KJV did a great disservice in translating the word as such. The proper teacher is "didaskolos." The Law of Moses was a pedagogue for Israel. Look up pedagogue in the dictionary and you'll see what it was.


Where does Scripture say you're grafted into True Oil? The root of the Olive Tree is the Abrahamic Covenant, through which we are blessed even as we remain wild olive branches. We never change being wild olive branches. But we are blessed through the Abrahamic Covenant...through the Seed, which is Yeshua.


Ish?


I've known people who have sinned this...and been forgiven. You really must go outside the context to create such a view. But carry on, if you like.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Ish?
...
I've known people who have sinned this...and been forgiven. You really must go outside the context to create such a view. But carry on, if you like.
working backwards.
No you have not known people who have sinned "like this" for if they had, there would be no more sacrifice for sin and they would be hardened beyond ability to seek the Light they had sought and found, and denied; for when the name is blotted out of the Book of Life, of a reprobate, there is no rewriting of that name in that Book which was written from the foundation of the world and had pre-written in it all the seed of Adam to come forth as sons of God in Adam, and then, at the fall, to be the ransom list of names Christ come in flesh came to ransom back, for the Father''s glory to indwell.

This is the most serious misrepresentation of the fall in Adam and the redemption in Christ taught us in the Word of God.
The names are written, called, from the foundation of the world; the name of "a called" in Adam can only be blotted out of the Book by one's own rejection of the Light or blasphemy of the Light that brought them to Christ.

Judas was such a one, as were the Pharisees who delivered Him to death knowing, with understanding, that He was the Promised Messiah, the Son of God who was to come.
Their names were blotted out of the Book of Life without remedy, as the Word of God tells us.



You may have known people who 'accept Jesus Christ as Savior" and who backslide and return -which is the call of YHWH to all in Adam until we draw our last breath, which He gave us- or you may have known people who "accept Jesus Christ as Savior" who are drawn away into a Christ denying cult in ignorance of inner revelation of Christ and who come to their senses and return to Christ fully, in understanding [my son-in-law is one of those kind, and God made Himself known to Him when he sought to return to the faith of his childhood after wandering into: Watchtower; Hinduism; Buddhism; and Islam, in ignorance and blindness; which blindness was the result of the preachers and teachers of the "Christian" Church of his childhood, in not preaching the Gospel with understanding themselves, making 'Chirsitanity' as a club to join, so to speak, and not a conversion of the inner man to the New Man and a new life lived in Him.
~~~
Jesus the Christ is the One who was to come who would put away the remembrance of sin forever, as promised from the beginning, and restore all things; and He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world who was to come in the fullness of times -in the appointed season- as the Seed of the Woman [Zion above] who would crush the head, or authority of the serpent and be Himself 'bruised'.

He came in flesh of the second human being creation, and His incarnation date is the date from which -backwards and forwards -all Adamkind is "blessed" [Haggai chapter 2, in the Hebrew]; for He came as the "Ish" [Isaiah 59], who had the power and the will to perform the will of God: to ransom the brother's dead seed and the brother's kingdom, and to bring the lost in Adam sons to the glory for the Father's indwelling which Adam was first made as a house for that glory to indwell and died to forever, without remedy, in the fall.

In Genesis the ishyah was taken from the ish.
She was to mother the living seed.
The living seed were created in the loins of the Ish, from whom the ishyah was taken.
The purpose of making Adam one spirit [Malachi 2:15] was to bring forth those godly seed =sons of God [Luke 3:38; Malachi 2:15]; but the death of Adam, son of God, left earth without the ish who could perform the will of God, for in the death of Adam, "son of God", there were no godly sons of God =godly seed, then alive, in him; for what he was, the seed was; and when he died in spirit, all that is called Adam died in the spirit called Adam.

So the second Ish body was formed [the only Begotten son of God as the only Living Son of God in humankind flesh] was created [Isaiah 59] who is the servant, called "Israel" [Isaiah 49], the brother to Adam the dead [Genesis 5:2]; and is the Living Spirit, called Christ, come in the flesh of that second hman being creation to perform the will of God and to bring the seed to godliness, or to make them sons of God for the glory of the Father to indwell, as His house [humankind] not made with hands [Haggai 2, again, as the latter house which has more glory than the first].

The purpose of Adam's creation as 'male and female' was to multiply the sons of God "in Adam" and to fill the kingdom given to Adam and Ben Adam foever with those sons of God for His glory to indwell.

The rest of the story is the fall and redemption [the death in the defilement of Adam] bythe creation of the flesh nature brother to Adam, "Israel", who has the will and the power to do the duty of Kinsman -which word is "Redeemer"- to Adam and Adam's 'barren widow" who bore no living seed after all.

This is just dealing with that subject a bit, but the goal or end or finish of the Law is to come to Christ, who is Himself represented as the Mercy Seat in the living oracles, which were a pattern of the heavenly things which Moses saw to copy exactly, , and all who come to Him are represented as the Ark of the Covenant, itself, under His solid gold Mercy Seat body, which is in the Holy of Holies in the created temple in heaven, where the glory dwells.


Once perfected in Christ by the adoption in Him, coming to Him by the blood of Atonement, which is the final acceptable sacrifice which ended the remembrance of sin forever, we are at the goal, the finish, the end, of the Law which taught these truths as living oracles.
~~~~~~~~~

Genesis 2:22,23 shows the picture of the “ 'ishshah” as the servant, husbandman, judge, of the Father’s kingdom prepared for him; and the rib YHWH took from Adam “made He an 'ishshah” and brought to Adam;
Adam said; the same [stroke selfsame] [1) bone, essence, substance
a) bone
1) body, limbs, members, external body
b) bone (of animal)
c) substance, self] flesh

[shall be] called
[1) to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim
a) (Qal)
1) to call, cry, utter a loud sound
2) to call unto, cry (for help), call (with name of God)
3) to proclaim
4) to read aloud, read (to oneself), read
5) to summon, invite, call for, call and commission, appoint, call and endow
6) to call, name, give name to, call by
b) (Niphal)
1) to call oneself
2) to be called, be proclaimed, be read aloud, be summoned, be named
c) (Pual) to be called, be named, be called out, be chosen

'ishshah
same taken [from]

'iysh

In Isaiah 49, YHWH looks and there is no 'iysh for earth, who can bring execute the judgment, the avenging, of the loss of it, and so He dons the Kinsman new creation flesh of the “'iysh” to do the duty of Kinsman for earth; which word, “Kinsman” is Redeemer.

The law of Kinsman precedes the Law of Moses, but is explained in
Deu 25:5 ¶If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the 'ishshah*** of the dead shall not marry without unto a 'iysh*** : her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to 'ishshah***, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.

Deu 25:6And it shall be, [that] the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother [which is] dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.

The cleansed adopted seed of the dead Adam become the 'ishshah of the New Creation 'iysh, the Servant, Fiorstborn, Judge, Avenger, of the kingdom first given to Adam and ben Adam.

All who are born again in Christ, who paid the Ransom required for their redemption and regeneration in His image, inherit the kingdom prepared in the beginning for the humankind sons of God; but in the New Man, not in Adam.

However: Enoch is the firstborn seed of Christ who is raised to the inheritance of his father, Adam, in the name of Adam, but born of Christ, the Self existing Everliving Spirit, according to the law of Kinsman.
 
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Dispy

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From the book BASIC BIBLE DOCTRINES, by Donald Webb.

THE BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

This subject of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is something that has been a considerable problem to many. We would like to interject here some brief comments on this issue. In Matthew 12:24-32 we find the exact definition of the unpardonable sin. The Lord had just healed a man possessed with a demon, and in verse 24 the Pharisees accused Him of casting out demons by Beelzebub or Satan. The Lord then laid a scathing rebuke against them for such a harsh judgment against Himself. He said in verse 28:

But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you (Matthew 12:28).

The Lord was demonstrating through the power of the Spirit that He was able to bind Satan and take out of the world such as He wanted. Their accusation attributed Christ's power, the work of the Holy Spirit, to Satan. Concerning this very sin, the Lord said:

Wherefore, I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come. (Matthew 12:31,32).

Several things should be noted about this sin. First, Christ has to be present and performing miracles that manifest the kingdom in order for one to commit this sin. Second, the sin is that of attributing the Holy Spirit's power to Satan. No other sin will fit; this particular sin is the only one the context will allow. Third, no believer can commit this sin because believers are in Christ and all their sins are forgiven. Fourth, this sin could only be committed by an unbeliever in the age in which our Lord walked this earth or in the coming kingdom which He called the age to come. Such events cannot be applied to this secret dispensation of grace, but rather the millennium.

Believers need have no fear of committing this sin, and no one in this dispensation of grace can commit this sin because the Holy Spirit is not manifesting the kingdom with miraculous power. In this dispensation of grace God is not imputing men's trespasses unto them but is offering salvation by grace through faith to all.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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thereselittleflower

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Oh for goodness sakes . . . vain disputings of things one knows nothing about . . . . .

Of course it can be committed today . . . I would not have been tested with it to the point of almost committing it if it could not be . . .

It is not what the OP indicates either . . .

Dispy has come very, very close . . . . however it is not attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to be those of the devil . . . .that is what sets one on the path to commit this sin . . .

I cannot and will not reveal what one has to say and do to commit it . . that would be foolishness in the extreme . .

However, let it be said that one cannot commit this sin without knowing exactly what it is they are doing and what it means.


.
 
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Dispy

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Your commentary did not refute what I posted. If it is in error, pluse publish correction from Scripture.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Your commentary did not refute what I posted. If it is in error, pluse publish correction from Scripture.

It is in the very scripture you quoted . . . . they were not accused of commiting this sin, but warned against it because they had embarked upon this path . . . .



.
 
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Dispy

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It is in the very scripture you quoted . . . . they were not accused of commiting this sin, but warned against it because they had embarked upon this path . . . . .


Just more commentary. Not refuting anything.
 
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JDS

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This is just a quick answer to the question and if the point has already been made, please forgive me. I have not read the comments yet.

The unpardonable sin was committed by a single generation of Jews, the generation of Jesus himself, and was a national sin. The house in the parable that Jesus gave in the chapter represented the house of Israel, whom he had prepared for his own entrance (In the form of the Holy Spirit) but had been rejected. Later, the unclean spirit would return and they would be worse off than before. This is the last generation of national Jews until 1948. This generation was judged in AD 70. The generation that witnesses the rebirth of Israel will see all the things mentioned by Jesus come to pass including the rapture and his glorious appearing. See Mt 24:32 and context before and aft! (BTW, the fig tree is the biblical symbol for national Israel).

Note: A bible generation is 70 years. 1948 to 2018 will complete the generation that saw Israel rise from the dead nationally from the graveyard of the nations. This means time is short and Jesus is coming for us soon.
 
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