The United States vs. Native Americans

gwyyn

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http://indian.senate.gov/ie107legtable.htm#SCIA

found this site, it lists all the bills referred to Senate committees on Indian Affairs. it's kinda old, all 2001. But it's interesting.

I've searched and searched too and can't find anything on forced relocation of the Hopi Indians. However did find article over the dispute over the BlackMesa coal and water rights.

gwyyn
 
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Brimshack

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The case is pretty old, and very convoluted. The forced relocation originated with court orders, and most of the actual legislation on the matter is certaily older than 2001. If you're actually interested, try reading Emily benedick's book, The Wind Won't Know Me. She's a journalist rather than a scholar, so it's pretty readable.

…and it's not Hopi that are the concern. About a thousand of them lost their land in comparison to about 10,000 Navajo. Given the relative balance of the deal, I don't think the relocated Hopi were too voiciferous in their dissent.
 
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Brimshack

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Bear:

I don't really see where Two feathers has held Native Americans beyond reproach in this thread. The point is that it isn't the Iroquois Confederacy that currently dictate BIA policies. It may very well be that different Indian peoples have committed attrocities over the years, but I fail to see how that answers any concerns about U.S. Treatment of Native Americans
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

I have an old Berry's World cartoon in which a young orthodox Jew is sitting in front of a grizzled, old Native American chief, next to the latter's teepee. The grizzled, old Native American chief tells him, "To tell you the truth, in our case, this land-for-peace thing didn't work out quite so well." It always gets me how the Americans go gallivanting all over the world lecturing other peoples on how they should sort out their problems & how they should give away pieces of their land, and blithely ignore the Jolly Green Giant-sized skeletons in their, rather roomy, closet. How thickly would you like your hypocrisy sliced?

Be well!

ssv :wave:


"The two principles on which our conduct towards the Indians should be founded, are justice and fear. After the injuries we have done them, they cannot love us." [Thomas Jefferson]

Philip Henry Sheridan

(1831-1888)

A ruthless warrior, General Philip Sheridan played a decisive role
in the army's long campaign against the native peoples of the
plains, forcing them onto reservations with the tactics of total war.

Sheridan was born in Albany, New York, in 1831, but grew up in
Ohio. He attended West Point and, after a year's suspension for
assaulting a fellow cadet with a bayonet, graduated near the
bottom of his class in 1853.

Like all the U.S. generals of the Indian wars, Sheridan gained his military experience in the Civil War. An
obscure lieutenant serving in Oregon when Fort Sumter was shelled, Sheridan rose to the command of the
Union's cavalry by the time the Confederacy surrendered. He saw action in Mississippi, Tennessee,
Kentucky and in Virginia, where his campaign through the Shenandoah Valley laid waste to an important
source of Confederate supplies. At Petersburg he won an important victory that halted Robert E. Lee's
retreat from Richmond and helped bring the war to an end.

After the war, Sheridan was first given command over Texas and Louisiana, where his support for
Mexican Republicans helped speed the collapse of Maximillian's regime and where his harsh treatment of
former Confederates led to charges of "absolute tyranny." Within six months he was transferred to the
Department of the Missouri, where he immediately shaped a battle plan to crush Indian resistance on the
southern plains.

Following the tactics he had employed in Virginia, Sheridan sought to strike directly at the material basis
of the Plains Indian nations. He believed -- correctly, it turned out -- that attacking the Indians' in their
encampments during the winter would give him the element of surprise and take advantage of the scarce
forage available for Indian mounts. He was unconcerned about the likelihood of high casualties among
noncombatants, once remarking that "If a village is attacked and women and children killed, the
responsibility is not with the soldiers but with the people whose crimes necessitated the attack."

The first demonstration of this strategy came in 1868, when three columns of troops under Sheridan's
command converged on what is now northwestern Oklahoma to force the Kiowa, Comanche, Arapaho and
Cheyenne onto their reservations. The key engagement in this successful campaign was George
Armstrong Custer's surprise attack on Black Kettle's encampment along the Wa****a River, an attack that
came at dawn after a forced march through a snowstorm. Many historians now regard this victory as a
massacre, since Black Kettle was a peaceful chief whose encampment was on reservation soil, but for
Sheridan the attack served its purpose, helping to persuade other bands to give up their traditional way of
life and move onto the reservations.

In 1869, Sheridan succeeded William Tecumseh Sherman as commander of the Division of the Missouri,
which encompassed the entire plains region from the Rocky Mountains to the Mississippi. With Sherman,
he refined his tactics -- massive force directed in surprise attacks against Indian encampments -- to
mount successful campaigns against the tribes of the southern plains in 1874-1875, and against those of
the northern plains in 1876-1877. Where some of his generals in these campaigns, such as Nelson A.
Miles, occasionally expressed a soldierly respect for the Indians they were fighting, Sheridan was
notorious for his supposed declaration that "the only good Indians I ever saw were dead" -- an attribution
he steadfastly denied.

Sheridan became commanding general of the United States Army in 1884 and held that post until his
death in 1888.

Link: http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/s_z/sheridan.htm
 
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Extirpated Wildlife

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Those who have been repressed will always feel jaded. In America, they have the right to speak out. In other countries, if they speak out they get put in prison.

It something that i can't grasp. I haven't been oppressed. I haven't had to look back at my heritage and see oppressed family members. I don't think it has to do with those who were oppressed where better people than the oppressors. I think it has to do with the fact that the oppressors either outnumbered, outsmarted and/or outmuscled those who were oppressed.

What can we do now? I don't know. I really don't. Many of us are intermixed with different nationalities of people who came over after the main oppression of the indians. We came here for a better future.

Every nation that exists today has dealt with some sort of crisis to be formed in the manner it is. Whether through oppressing people who warring with nations beside them.

Who is to blame? I don't know the history. I know from what i have read from local history that many forts were created where i live to fight indians because the indians would attack them. Would their be a problem today if Indians didn't attack? I don't know that either.

Who is to blame for the oppression? Once again I don't know how it began. Countries don't form through friendly encounters. Even the best of them.
 
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Michael0701

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Two Feathers,

You answered my question. Thank you. But I must also warn you, that the term "genocide" will lose it's meaning and horror if misused and will go the way of the word "racism". As a white, male, immigrant, american, I certianly don't know how to solve native american issues. I will admit to being ignorant of specific ploicies and treaties. But I still do hold on to the fact that in america all things are possible. As long as you don't feel that I as a taxpayer owe you anything, then you have my ear and I am willing to listen. In many ways I can relate to what you are saying. My father on his deathbed back in 1989 assured me that his native land would be free of soviet oppression and I thought he was nuts. That it would never, ever happen. But it did, and today Ukraine is once again a free and soveriegn nation. You talk about genocide, well I agree that it should be stopped wherever it exists in the world today, but to say that the present govenment of the US is commiting it, well it cheepens the word. It's just not true. IF the BIA were free of corruption and actually served the people it was intended to, then native americans might have a chance to share in the wealth of what is america. You are being duped and lied to and KEPT in poverty by those who claim to lead you, and that's not my fault.
 
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two feathers

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Originally posted by Michael0701
Two Feathers, You answered my question. Thank you. But I must warn you, that the term "genocide" will lose it's meaning and horror if misused and will go the way of the word "racism"...

Understood.

As pointed out earlier by Brimshack, and now by you, I see that my use of the word genocide was an error on my part. I appreciate your respectful post, Michael.
 
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two feathers

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Originally posted by TheBear
What are you going for here, two feathers?

Hmmm...earlier you said you knew where I was going.

So which is it Bear? do you know or do you not know?

Are you trying to say that there were no broken treaties among the indigenous nations and tribes? That there was no deciet between the nations of the land? That before the Europeans arrived, no innocent had died, or been raped and tourtured at the hands of native american warriors, when fighting to expand their own territories? Are you trying to hold up native americans above reproach? That there was none of this going on, and every tribe and nation got along just fine until the Europeans arrived? That native nations did not do "whatever it took" to get what they wanted? Get real.

I think you're in the wrong thread. This is The United States vs. Native Americans, not Native Americans vs. Native Americans. Stick to the topic.

Are you trying to hold up native americans above reproach?

No.

Are you trying to justify heinous acts commited by the United States of America?
 
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two feathers

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Originally posted by TheBear
Can you explain the overall purpose and direction you want this thread to go? What is the underlying message you want to get across?

All I wanted was to see if there were others who had the same concerns that I do regarding the ill treatment of Native Americans. If you feel the need to search for alterior motives, go ahead, but you're wasting your time.
 
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Michael0701

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I have a tremendous sympathy for the plight of native americans. The early american governmental policies certianly seem genocidal to me based on my limited knowledge of what was done to them. Atrocities doesn't seem harsh enough to describe what I believe happened. Our (american) history certianly has it's roots in conquest of other nations and peoples.

Having said that it seems to me that the most important focus today should be acknowledgement and education. Two Feathers did not say a word about reparations, so this is my own thought. What can we do today to make ammends? I am not willing to make reparations to native americans, blacks, hispanics or any other group. I used the word conquest above intentionally. In history the spoils always went to the victors (or conquerors). The thought of reparations for something that happened 2-3 hundred years ago is nonsense. Again, I bring this up only because of something I heard on the news radio station today about a bill for reparations, and I conclude that it will only divide us as a nation and do nothing to change history or the lives of americans as a whole.

My wish for native americans today is to not allow their culture to disappear or change in any way shape or form.  To flourish as a nation which is not seperate from the US, but a part of the US.  For their leaders to mandate education both in the cultural sense as well as raising their standard of living.  Continue to press the american government for what is rightfully due them in courts and in the press.  And to work on changing the image of what may be a key factor for what may be holding them back from gaining majority public support. And most importantly to me, their conversion to Christianity.  May God bless them all.
 
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