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The United States doesn't have a military

Texas Lynn

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The United States does not have a military - the military has the United States.


EXAMPLE 1 - SUPPLIES
Both the Vietnam Era and the Occupation of Iraq became protracted conflicts lacking attainable goals.

Any government primarily concerned about the reputation of the country or the reputation of the military would pick attainable goals, attain them, and leave.

But the road map was a detailed plan for taking out the defenses, seizing airports and roads, getting in to cities, and then the plans stopped.

Why? Haliburton is supplying the soldiers and getting a lot of money for doing it. The more soldiers posted to Iraq or Afghanistan and the longer they are there, the more money Haliburton and their stooge Dick Cheney get.

Suppose you were paid 40,000 dollars each week you allowed soldiers to stay somewhere, would you care if you slowly became unpopular? The American public has been amazingly slow to catch on.



The military industrial / Cheney etc. power block has more influence over the war than the public or the military leaders themselves have.

Valid points, but to clarify the first line there, that'd be the "military-industrial complex" President Eisenhower warned us of in his farewell address and would certainly not involve per se any military members ranked below Major or Lieutenant Commander in the Navy. Part of the success of the contracting companies is the revolving door in which their executives come from retired senior officers in whose interest keeping the system intact remains.
 
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Billnew

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The Unites States doesn't have a military it has a terror network!!

Ooops, sorry. Think I was channeling chipahualca there for a moment. :blush:
eww. now thats scary.

The USA doesn't have a military. The world falls into choas, EU fails do to
massive military build up.
 
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Douger

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Every great unbeaten military power eventually meets their match. Somewhere along the line the US will face it's own version of Marathon, Pydna, Chalons, Ain Jalut, Patay, and Rocroi.
And as always, the world will keep turning and billions of little people around the world will keep going with their lives, unaffected and unconcerned by some haughty self important power unseating another haughty self important power.
 
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Steve Petersen

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Every great unbeaten military power eventually meets their match. Somewhere along the line the US will face it's own version of Marathon, Pydna, Chalons, Ain Jalut, Patay, and Rocroi.
And as always, the world will keep turning and billions of little people around the world will keep going with their lives, unaffected and unconcerned by some haughty self important power unseating another haughty self important power.

Colin Powell addressed the World Economic Forum on January 26, 2003:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050223...arks+from+Colin+Powell,+US+Secretary+of+State

SECRETARY POWELL: The United States believes strongly in what you call soft power, the value of democracy, the value of the free economic system, the value of making sure that each citizen is free and free to pursue their own God-given ambitions and to use the talents that they were given by God. And that is what we say to the rest of the world. That is why we participated in establishing a community of democracy within the Western Hemisphere. It's why we participate in all of these great international organizations.

There is nothing in American experience or in American political life or in our culture that suggests we want to use hard power. But what we have found over the decades is that unless you do have hard power -- and here I think you're referring to military power -- then sometimes you are faced with situations that you can't deal with.

I mean, it was not soft power that freed Europe. It was hard power. And what followed immediately after hard power? Did the United States ask for dominion over a single nation in Europe? No. Soft power came in the Marshall Plan. Soft power came with American GIs who put their weapons down once the war was over and helped all those nations rebuild. We did the same thing in Japan.

So our record of living our values and letting our values be an inspiration to others I think is clear. And I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of or apologize for with respect to what America has done for the world...

We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace.

If you have a problem with supposed 'US Imperialism', take it up with him.
 
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ArnautDaniel

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That's the title, you write the rest :o

They used to say of Prussia that it wasn't a state with a military but rather a military with a state.

Some days it looks fair to say that the US doesn't have a military but a military has the US.
 
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Steve Petersen

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They used to say of Prussia that it wasn't a state with a military but rather a military with a state.

Some days it looks fair to say that the US doesn't have a military but a military has the US.

Everyone who enters the US armed forces takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States and to obey all lawful orders.

Our armed forces are still under civilian control , commanded by an elected civilian and funded by Representatives in the US House.

When in our history has our goverment ever been overthrown by the military? The closest you might get was when Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus.
 
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ArnautDaniel

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Everyone who enters the US armed forces takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States and to obey all lawful orders.

Our armed forces are still under civilian control , commanded by an elected civilian and funded by Representatives in the US House.

When in our history has our goverment ever been overthrown by the military? The closest you might get was when Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus.

The central engine in the US economy is military spending.

This is a serious warping of the economy and one of the reasons the US has become so uncompetitive elsewhere.
 
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Steve Petersen

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The central engine in the US economy is military spending.

This is a serious warping of the economy and one of the reasons the US has become so uncompetitive elsewhere.

The US currently spends about 4% of GDP on the Defense Department. That is half what it was during the Vietman War. Central engine?? You gotta be kidding!
 
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ArnautDaniel

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The US currently spends about 4% of GDP on the Defense Department. That is half what it was during the Vietman War. Central engine?? You gotta be kidding!

The US economic system is effectively a Keynesian system where the government stimulates the system through the purchases of weapons from major manufacturers and the effects of that trickle down the system.

Basically the US couldn't get out of the Great Depression until it started building lots of weapons for WWII. After WWII everyone was afraid the Depression would resume so they found an excuse to maintain a large military which would require them to purchase weapons, thus stimulating the economy and preventing a major depression.

Building weapons is nice as they don't really represent capital (unlike building a road) and can be replaced periodically.

It would be like stimulating Detroit by having the government buy cars and then drop them over the side of a ship at sea. You'd still get the stimulus effects such as jobs and contracts to other industries, but you don't have the problem that once everyone has a car demand falls off.

The end result has been a number of industries that have serious problems without government military contracts (cf. the recent issues with Boeing and the Air Force).

Basically we have bloated industries that are unviable without huge contracts for weapons systems that we don't really need, and because their life-blood is producing things for the government they are less concerned about being competitive elsewhere.

Which gets back to why American cars suck.

...

Oh...you all thought the US had some sort of free market economy....
 
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Steve Petersen

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The US economic system is effectively a Keynesian system where the government stimulates the system through the purchases of weapons from major manufacturers and the effects of that trickle down the system.

Basically the US couldn't get out of the Great Depression until it started building lots of weapons for WWII. After WWII everyone was afraid the Depression would resume so they found an excuse to maintain a large military which would require them to purchase weapons, thus stimulating the economy and preventing a major depression.[

Building weapons is nice as they don't really represent capital (unlike building a road) and can be replaced periodically.

It would be like stimulating Detroit by having the government buy cars and then drop them over the side of a ship at sea. You'd still get the stimulus effects such as jobs and contracts to other industries, but you don't have the problem that once everyone has a car demand falls off.

The end result has been a number of industries that have serious problems without government military contracts (cf. the recent issues with Boeing and the Air Force).

Basically we have bloated industries that are unviable without huge contracts for weapons systems that we don't really need, and because their life-blood is producing things for the government they are less concerned about being competitive elsewhere.

Which gets back to why American cars suck.

...

Oh...you all thought the US had some sort of free market economy....


I don't think that 4% of GDP describes the crisis you have imagined.
 
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The title of this thread makes me angry.

I've got just the thing for you

angry-whopper.jpg
 
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ArnautDaniel

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I don't think that 4% of GDP describes the crisis you have imagined.

4% is rather misleading.

GDP is a total economic measure, while 4% is simply what Congress allocated.

If I build a bomb and subcontract portions of the work out, that will increase GDP, but will not be counted in the 4%.

Also there are many things that one would think of as Defense related that wouldn't fall entirely under the DOD and its budget.

Nuclear weapons under the Department of Energy come to mind, there are others.

Interesting to think that the entire US nuclear arsenal doesn't fall under the DOD budget....

Also, by any reasonable measure the Department of Homeland Security is an extension of defense, so you should include its spending as well. Also one would think Veterans' Affairs would be defense as well....

Basically the US budget is like "sugar" on product ingredients. They put in sugar many different ways and list them separately so that sugar will not be the number one ingredient. The military budget is the same way. Create a dozen departments out of the military and military spending wont be the number one outlay.
 
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Steve Petersen

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4% is rather misleading.

GDP is a total economic measure, while 4% is simply what Congress allocated.

If I build a bomb and subcontract portions of the work out, that will increase GDP, but will not be counted in the 4%.

Nonsense. The money has still been allocated. How it is spread out is irrelevant. Red herring.

Also there are many things that one would think of as Defense related that wouldn't fall entirely under the DOD and its budget.

Nuclear weapons under the Department of Energy come to mind, there are others.

Interesting to think that the entire US nuclear arsenal doesn't fall under the DOD budget....

Atomic Energy Commission has submitted a request to Congress for 2009 Energy Defense Activities of about $9 billion.

http://www.cfo.doe.gov/budget/09budget/Content/ApprSum.pdf

Also, by any reasonable measure the Department of Homeland Security is an extension of defense, so you should include its spending as well. Also one would think Veterans' Affairs would be defense as well....

DHS budget requests amount to about $50.5 billion.
http://www.google.com/search?q=dhs+...ox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GZHY

US GDP is projected to b e$15 trillion for 2008.
http://www.forecasts.org/gdp.htm

Take AEC Defense and DHS budgets together. $60 billion. That is an additional 0.4% of GDP. Throw in DoD, now we are up to a whopping 4.4% of GDP. The historic low for Defense was about 3% of GDP. WWII was about 38%.

Basically the US budget is like "sugar" on product ingredients. They put in sugar many different ways and list them separately so that sugar will not be the number one ingredient. The military budget is the same way. Create a dozen departments out of the military and military spending wont be the number one outlay.

So far the numbers don't bear out your premise.
 
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