The United Church of Christ Supports Abortion!

[The Liturgist]

It is such a shame that the congregation in possession of one of the most beautiful churches in the United States, Old South Church in Boston, would engage in such ugliness: A Message after the SC Overturn of Roe v. Wade | Old South Church in Boston, MA

This is in my view far worse than Episcopal churches that support arsenokoetia, for at least in such a case, no one is harmed other than those engaging in the act, whereas most Christians can agree that abortion is a morally reprehensible act involving the taking of the life of another, and therefore the same Supreme Court ruling that scandalized the leadership of this misguided congregation was for most of us a cause for celebration.

Now, whereas the main point of this thread is to advise members of the horrible things going on in this once-great denomination, there is also a unique aspect of the UCC (and also the American Baptist Convention, which to my knowledge has not taken a stand against the pro-life movement) and the Unitarian Universalist Association) for members to consider:

I believe traditional Christians should consider organized efforts to join UCC parishes in order to take control of them, remove them from the UCC, and where possible modify the church constitutions to support pro-life values, to prohibit the dissemination of contra-scriptural teaching, and to ensure that once liberated from the shadow of worldliness, these churches remain pillars of light. There is also a traditionalist group in the UCC called Faithful and Welcoming which might be able to assist in such actions. There are other mainline churches which also support this hideous practice, but the congregational polity of the UCC presents a unique opportunity to rectify conditions in at least one of them.

Conversely, we must be mindful of this aspect of congregational polity which does expose smaller parishes in the SBC, LCMS, WELS and other traditional Christian churches to takeover.

 

[seeking.IAM]

My friend, I understand this is an issue for which you have strong convictions, but I have to say we can do better than to call for Christians to leave their church and go undercover to conquer other Churches and get them to change who they are.

What next, traditionalists sneaking into join non-denoms to get rid of tambourines, guitars, and projection screens?

 

[The Liturgist]

My friend, I understand this is an issue for which you have strong convictions, but I have to say we can do better than to call for Christians to leave their church and go undercover to conquer other Churches and get them to change who they are.

What next, traditionalists sneaking into join non-denoms to get rid of tambourines, guitars, and projection screens?

I am shocked that you would liken the use of tambourines, guitars and projection screens to supporting abortion. Churches using those guitars might be worshipping in a manner that I personally disagree with, but which is not a great evil.

In contrast, supporting abortion is engaging morally reprehensible, and as Christians, we have a duty to legally stop churches from doing it when such a course of action is possible, which we actually can do in the case of the UCC, and the Unitarian Universalists for that matter.

I would also note that whereas the problem with the UCC will eventually resolve itself due to the fact that they have experienced the sharpest decline in membership numbers and continue to shrink, the Unitarian Universalist cult, which also has a congregational polity, is growing, and given the trajectory of the UCC, a UCC-UUA merger is a risk, and such would be a disaster, because it would lead to the end of Nicene Christianity.

However, even if we are unable to take over the parishes of the UCC, we can still avoid them, and the primary goal of this thread is to advise people that the UCC is engaged in this horrible conduct.

*Tambourines have a history in worship dating back around 1,400 years, in that the flagella used in Syriac Orthodox churches to keep flies away from the Blessed Sacrament have bells mounted underneath the decorative disk, and projection screens and large LCD displays have been providential for the Coptic Orthodox and Syriac Orthodox churches, as they enable them to project English and Arabic translations of the service along with guides to pronouncing the Coptic and Syriac words. I personally support the adoption of tablets to replace printed hymnals and service books during daytime services as the next major technological upgrade.

 

[seeking.IAM]

It's not the issue, it is the method. Ends don't justify means. I think we have enough division in our country without pitting Christians against Christians by entering churches under false pretenses to accomplish our own agenda. I don't mind your opposition to abortion as I respect it as a matter of conscience; I do mind your suggested tactic. I suspect you would not react well to an influx of different persons in your congregation taking control to shift to a different vision. I think Christians should be charitable with each other regardless of differences.

 

[The Liturgist]

It's not the issue, it is the method. Ends don't justify means. I think we have enough division in our country without pitting Christians against Christians by entering churches under false pretenses to accomplish our own agenda. I don't mind your opposition to abortion as I respect it as a matter of conscience; I do mind your suggested tactic. I suspect you would not react well to an influx of different persons in your congregation taking control to shift to a different vision. I think Christians should be charitable with each other regardless of differences.

There is nothing unethical about joining a UCC church, which would otherwise fail within the next 20-30 years based on statistics, and correcting its moral teachings. Indeed many parishioners are frustrated with the radical positions of the UCC but aren’t in a position to do anything about it. There are places in New England and elsewhere where the central historic church is a UCC parish (there are also places where, even worse for the local populations, the central historic church is one annexed by the Unitarians in their schism from the Congregationalists).

There are traditional Protestants in Cambridge, Massachussets, for example, but there is no church for them. I am suggesting that people living in places where the UCC and UUA exercise an undue influence these churches, and that SBC, LCMS and other traditional congregational churches modify their constitutions to ensure that the reverse cannot happen to them. The constitution of my mission parishes, for example, contains an immutable section which precludes us from teaching against the Nicene Creed or promoting abortion or sexual immorality.

 

[The Liturgist]

It's not the issue, it is the method. Ends don't justify means. I think we have enough division in our country without pitting Christians against Christians by entering churches under false pretenses to accomplish our own agenda. I don't mind your opposition to abortion as I respect it as a matter of conscience; I do mind your suggested tactic. I suspect you would not react well to an influx of different persons in your congregation taking control to shift to a different vision. I think Christians should be charitable with each other regardless of differences.

Also, I didn’t say anything about joining UCC churches under false pretenses. Obviously we should not dissimulate our Biblical convictions in seeking to gain control of a church which is committed to promoting abortion.

And in the case of Unitarian Universalists, most of their parishes no longer claim to be Christian; only a few such as King’s Chapel in Boston continue to practice a heterodox Christianity. Again, this does not mean I would suggest that we sneak into such churches to take them over, rather, since UUA churches are supposed to be open to all regardless of religion, taking them over can and should be done in broad daylight.

However, we should expect efforts to take over the parishes of the SBC, LCMS, WELS, CCCC and other conservative congregational denominations. Indeed this actually happened in the case of the Polish National Catholic Church and their parish in Toronto, despite their episcopal polity (in the end they got their parish back, but it took many years of litigation).

 

[seeking.IAM]

Also, I didn’t say anything about joining UCC churches under false pretenses.

It sure sounded like it to me when I read this:

I believe traditional Christians should consider organized efforts to join UCC parishes in order to take control of them, remove them from the UCC, and where possible modify the church constitutions

In any case, I think the ship has pretty much sailed on conservatives leaving the UCC. In my state 35 congregations left years ago over homosexuality and those remaining seem pretty content where the UCC is now. I think the conservative element of the UCC is now a very small minority with little influence within the national church.

 

[George Blair]

It is such a shame that the congregation in possession of one of the most beautiful churches in the United States, Old South Church in Boston, would engage in such ugliness: A Message after the SC Overturn of Roe v. Wade | Old South Church in Boston, MA

This is in my view far worse than Episcopal churches that support arsenokoetia, for at least in such a case, no one is harmed other than those engaging in the act, whereas most Christians can agree that abortion is a morally reprehensible act involving the taking of the life of another, and therefore the same Supreme Court ruling that scandalized the leadership of this misguided congregation was for most of us a cause for celebration.

Now, whereas the main point of this thread is to advise members of the horrible things going on in this once-great denomination, there is also a unique aspect of the UCC (and also the American Baptist Convention, which to my knowledge has not taken a stand against the pro-life movement) and the Unitarian Universalist Association) for members to consider:

I believe traditional Christians should consider organized efforts to join UCC parishes in order to take control of them, remove them from the UCC, and where possible modify the church constitutions to support pro-life values, to prohibit the dissemination of contra-scriptural teaching, and to ensure that once liberated from the shadow of worldliness, these churches remain pillars of light. There is also a traditionalist group in the UCC called Faithful and Welcoming which might be able to assist in such actions. There are other mainline churches which also support this hideous practice, but the congregational polity of the UCC presents a unique opportunity to rectify conditions in at least one of them.

Conversely, we must be mindful of this aspect of congregational polity which does expose smaller parishes in the SBC, LCMS, WELS and other traditional Christian churches to takeover.

 

[concretecamper]

I am shocked that you would liken the use of tambourines, guitars and projection screens to supporting abortion.

a typical tactic to deflect from a very important issue

 

[seeking.IAM]

a typical tactic to deflect from a very important issue

I think you miss the point. The point is not to equate tambourines with abortion, but to point out none of us would appreciate the tactic suggested by OP of persons joining another church for the purpose of attempting to change the fabric of who they are.

 

[kiwimac]

The bible never mentions abortion.

 

[The Liturgist]

I think you miss the point. The point is not to equate tambourines with abortion, but to point out none of us would appreciate the tactic suggested by OP of persons joining another church for the purpose of attempting to change the fabric of who they are.

I think the majority of the members of the majority of parishes of the mainline churches appreciate it, since for the most part they are elderly people who are still there because they don’t want to leave the church into which they were baptized and that is the heart of their community. Everyone has a limit, of course, and the mainline churches have driven a lot of people to that limit, but given that membership continues to decline, while membership in the Unitarian Universalist Association continues to increase, this suggests that a significant number of members of the mainline churches are merely tolerating the current situation and praying for an improvement.

Now, members of the UUA might not appreciate it, but considering Unitarianism is a dangerous cult on a par with Christian Science and Mormonism, I don’t really care.

At any rate, my proposed solution to the problem is a hypothetical one on my part, but the main issue is that these denominations support abortion and that is a great evil which must be addressed using every legal tool that is available. I regard the support of abortion as morally reprehensible and fundamentally incompatible with Christianity, much more so than the misguided approach of the mainline churches towards homosexuality, which to a large extent has served as a distraction, diverting the attention of the laity away from this much greater issue.

 

[The Liturgist]

The bible never mentions abortion.

Untrue. In addition to the clear statements in scripture that life begins at conception, and thus is protected by “Thou shalt do no murder,” there are also the equally clear cases of the Amonites being condemned by the Holy Prophet Amos for cutting open the wombs of pregnant women, and the Lord’s fury against Israel for passing children through the fire to Moloch.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is such a shame that the congregation in possession of one of the most beautiful churches in the United States, Old South Church in Boston, would engage in such ugliness: A Message after the SC Overturn of Roe v. Wade | Old South Church in Boston, MA

This is in my view far worse than Episcopal churches that support arsenokoetia, for at least in such a case, no one is harmed other than those engaging in the act, whereas most Christians can agree that abortion is a morally reprehensible act involving the taking of the life of another, and therefore the same Supreme Court ruling that scandalized the leadership of this misguided congregation was for most of us a cause for celebration.

Now, whereas the main point of this thread is to advise members of the horrible things going on in this once-great denomination, there is also a unique aspect of the UCC (and also the American Baptist Convention, which to my knowledge has not taken a stand against the pro-life movement) and the Unitarian Universalist Association) for members to consider:

I believe traditional Christians should consider organized efforts to join UCC parishes in order to take control of them, remove them from the UCC, and where possible modify the church constitutions to support pro-life values, to prohibit the dissemination of contra-scriptural teaching, and to ensure that once liberated from the shadow of worldliness, these churches remain pillars of light. There is also a traditionalist group in the UCC called Faithful and Welcoming which might be able to assist in such actions. There are other mainline churches which also support this hideous practice, but the congregational polity of the UCC presents a unique opportunity to rectify conditions in at least one of them.

Conversely, we must be mindful of this aspect of congregational polity which does expose smaller parishes in the SBC, LCMS, WELS and other traditional Christian churches to takeover.

We need a second book of Revelation, to the church in Boston supporting the pro choice abomination, I know your deeds…