The Un-evangelized

[4Jesus]

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

Furthermore, would God have made this wonderful truth known to one group of people (i.e., just to Jesus's disciples or to the Jews in Palestine at Pentecost), and not to the rest of the world? Unless all nations in all parts of the world have equal access at the same time to the Good News of Jesus Christ's atoning death, wouldn't that make God un-fair? 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Scripture does not say God is fair, it says He is Just.

I believe He did what He needed to do for all of mankind to make their decision. He specifically came for the House of Israel but the Gentiles have been grafted in. That's mercy. And I'm very greatful.

 

[4Jesus]

It seems to me that God did make the Gospel accessible to all men. We read about Paul sailing to different places and the missionary efforts of the apostles. The known world was probably very small then because God wouldn't have only made the truth known to a few and ignored another segment of humanity wherein they would have died never hearing it.

 

[dignitized]

4jesus: they are condemned for what? their unbelief in the name of Jesus. One cannot have unbelief in the name of Jesus without ever having heard it can one?

 

[S Walch]

Well, as christians that is our task - To spead the word of Jesus to all the world!

It is then up to the person who hears it whether s/he believes in it.

It does say somewhere that on Judgement day God will Judge all the people fairly - so I'm guessing the people that hadn't heard abot Jesus when they died would then be Judged on what they had done in their lives - whether it was good or bad (some good, but most I'm guessing would be bad)

 

[Athlon4all]

Romans 1:18-21 makes it clear on this issue:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Gotta love the balance of these verses! First we see God's justice in judging the unrighteous, and then makes it clear that God has clearly shown himself to all people. Another good scripture ios John 14:4-9. Gotta run!

 

[S Walch]

Yesterday at 10:39 PM Athlon4all said this in Post #6 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=675588#post675588)

Romans 1:18-21 makes it clear on this issue:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Gotta love the balance of these verses! First we see God's justice in judging the unrighteous, and then makes it clear that God has clearly shown himself to all people. Another good scripture ios John 14:4-9. Gotta run!

My bible version of those passages makes that even more clearer!

Romans 1:18-20
18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinfull, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.
19 For the truth about God is know to them instictively. God has put his knowledge in their Hearts.
20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that god made. They can clearly see his invisable quantaties - his eternal power and divine nature. so they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.

Thanks for showing me that Athlon 4all!

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

Hmm, although, consider a tribe in the Amazonian Jungle for instance, who has no contact with the outside world, and worships the silver birds that fly over head and leave a trail of glory across the sky! They have eaten any missionary that came to tell them the word of God, because they were hungry, and did not know any better - who can blame them, for didn't God make us with the need to eat?!?! They didn't understand their posh English accent anyway!

or consider the baby that dies inside the womb - before it has had the chance to hear the word of God and make a decission for itself.


Do they go to hell??? (a hard question i know, i have my own views i just wanna know yours.)
Are these people condemned because they have not heard the word of God, and had the oportunity to accept it as the truth??

 

[4Jesus]

Today at 04:43 AM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #8

Hmm, although, consider a tribe in the Amazonian Jungle for instance, who has no contact with the outside world, and worships the silver birds that fly over head and leave a trail of glory across the sky! They have eaten any missionary that came to tell them the word of God, because they were hungry, and did not know any better - who can blame them, for didn't God make us with the need to eat?!?! They didn't understand their posh English accent anyway!

What I'm saying is that originally when the gospel was first revealed at Pentecost, God did make it available to all makind. The known world was not that large so I say that God made it avialable to all men. What happened to it after that in successive generations is the fault of the people that came before. If people fail to pass the truth on or teach their children, can one assume that evangelization has already happened and people being ignorant is the fault of their ancestors and not God? Does re-evangelization need to occur? I did like Athlon4all's comment.

or consider the baby that dies inside the womb - before it has had the chance to hear the word of God and make a decission for itself.

Has that baby inside the womb had the opportunity to sin after the similtude of Adam? Ro.5:12-14 


Do they go to hell??? (a hard question i know, i have my own views i just wanna know yours.)
Are these people condemned because they have not heard the word of God, and had the oportunity to accept it as the truth??

[/QUOTE]

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

If people fail to pass the truth on or teach their children, can one assume that evangelization has already happened and people being ignorant is the fault of their ancestors and not God? Does re-evangelization need to occur?

I don't think everyone was tought the truth in the first place, and therefore  the act of evangelisation is not complete! If it was, why has Jesus not returned yet? Because, at the present time, everyone on earth has not had the chance to accept and reject christ...

though it is admittedly a tough question

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

Has that baby inside the womb had the opportunity to sin after the similtude of Adam? Ro.5:12-14

An innocent baby does not know right from wrong and therefore cannot be judged as a sinner, as they do not know what constitutes sin!

 

[4Jesus]

Today at 08:21 AM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #10

I don't think everyone was tought the truth in the first place, and therefore  the act of evangelisation is not complete! If it was, why has Jesus not returned yet? Because, at the present time, everyone on earth has not had the chance to accept and reject christ...

though it is admittedly a tough question

Thanks for your comments OLDoMiNion, I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this. I was thinking about the code of Hammurabi (c.1728-1686 B.C.) the date of his reign is according to Albright, which it is believed would date him three centuries subsequent to the age of Abraham. The code which was found on a black stella by Jacques de Morgan in 1901-2 in Susa where it is believe was carried by Elamite raiders, has interesting parallels to the pentateuchal laws.

Here we have a king that was sixth of the First Dynasty of Babylon with laws or teaching that is similar to those in the OT. If we believe the Bible contains the truth, how could a heathen people possess similar information?

 

[SoccerAaron]

24th February 2003 at 02:05 PM 4Jesus said this in Post #1 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=672859#post672859)

God un-fair? 

Show me where in the Bible it says he's fair.

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

I really don't know enough about the subject to comment at the moment. I'll wait until a few others have posted, and i have found time to research it a bit more...

However,

how could a heathen people possess similar information?

Just because they are heathen, it doesn't mean they have always been. They may have strayed away from the truth, the same happens today.

 

[SoccerAaron]

Today at 09:49 AM S Walch said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=676821#post676821)

My bible version of those passages makes that even more clearer!

Romans 1:18-20
18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinfull, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.
19 For the truth about God is know to them instictively. God has put his knowledge in their Hearts.
20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that god made. They can clearly see his invisable quantaties - his eternal power and divine nature. so they have no excuse whatsoever for not
knowing God.

Thanks for showing me that Athlon 4all!

What version is that?

Do they go to hell???

Depends. If they are of the elect, yes. If not, no.
There is no "Age of Reason" if thats what your asking. You can read the Bibel from front to back and you won't find a good verse supporting it.

An innocent baby does not know right from wrong and therefore cannot be judged as a sinner, as they do not know what constitutes sin!

But they have original sin.

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

Depends. If they are of the elect, yes. If not, no.
There is no "Age of Reason" if thats what your asking. You can read the Bibel from front to back and you won't find a good verse supporting it

"of the elect" - please explain.

"There is no "Age of Reason" if thats what your asking" - of course not, it dependson the individual and their relationship with God.

"You can read the Bibel from front to back and you won't find a good verse supporting it." - have you read the whole bible, front to back? Define a "good verse".

But they have original sin

oh, so being the Just God that he is, he's going to condemn a little innocent babys soul to eternal torment because of what somone else did?!? I think not. He is a God of mercy and of compassion.
Like i say, it not upto us to judge someone, not even a little baby, it's upto God.

Matthew 7:1
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Luke 6:37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

 

[S Walch]

Today at 04:27 PM SoccerAaron said this in Post #15 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677302#post677302)

What version is that?



Depends. If they are of the elect, yes. If not, no.
There is no "Age of Reason" if thats what your asking. You can read the Bibel from front to back and you won't find a good verse supporting it.


But they have original sin.

My bible version is the New living Waters Version.

Yes, everybody has original sin - even an unborn child.

Where in the Bible does it say that until the whole world has the act of evangelisation will Jesus come again?

Itprobably does say that - but I can't remember where it says it (it is a long book you know!)

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

Yes, everybody has original sin - even an unborn child.

Yes, but it doesn't mean that they go to hell. It's for God to decide, not you, or SoccerAaron, or anyone for that matter!

 

[S Walch]

Today at 05:06 PM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #18 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677347#post677347)

Yes, but it doesn't mean that they go to hell. It's for God to decide, not you, or SoccerAaron, or anyone for that matter!

I never said anything about them going to hell - I was just conferming that they have original sin - but because they actually havent's commit a sin bythemselfes yet (ie lieing (sp?)) I pecticually doubpt they would go to hell.

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

Do you have any scriptural support for the original sin issue?