The Ulster-Scots

[CCGirl]

CCGirl, it's Irish propeganda poems like the one above which provided the ammunition for Irish hatred towards all the people in the Isles.

Such nationalism is dangerous. We only have to look at Nazism to understand how a flawed sense of history, coupled with an anger against a people, can lead to much maligned patriotism and death. This false type of nationalism eventually lead to the Irish rebelling against, and disowning their own people simply because they wanted a union with the other inhabitants of the British Isles.

I really don't understand why certain Irish nationalists try to promote that the Island is only for the Irish, when it was the Normans, with the Vaticans blessings, who united the Island and remaned the native Gaels, Irish.

So, infact, they want independance from the Roman Catholic English who they are descended from and owe their Irish identity to

Ummm....the song is by Paul McCartney

 

[Tyndale]

Ummm....the song is by Paul McCartney

That doesn't make the content true. It's well known that the beetles were influenced by the Irish (most oppressed people ever) propaganda, sure John Lennon tried to become influencial to the IRA before he was shot.

 

[Tyndale]

The Irish want thier own country back and they dont want to be shot, arrested, or harassed for supporting it.

I said Ireland belongs to the Irish people. If you want to live there, go ahead. Just dont expect to bring your government with you. I dont go to Britan and expect the US government to come with me.

The Irish have their country, it's situated in the British Isles and is called the Republic of Ireland. They don't have the right to N.Ireland too. What makes you people think that an island has to contain one nationality only? Such thinking is fascist!

You seem to think that the British government belongs to the English or Scotish. The British government is a collective union between 4 nations within the British Isles. Just because the Republic of Ireland refuses to join, doesn't mean it can dictate to every other country within that Union.

 

[Steezie]

The Irish have their country, it's situated in the British Isles and is called the Republic of Ireland. They don't have the right to N.Ireland too. What makes you people think that an island has to contain one nationality only? Such thinking is fascist!

Ireland belongs to the Irish people. Simply because British troops came in and stole half of it doesnt mean that all of a sudden they arent entitled to thier country.

You seem to think that the British government belongs to the English or Scotish. The British government is a collective union between 4 nations within the British Isles. Just because the Republic of Ireland refuses to join, doesn't mean it can dictate to every other country within that Union.

So because theres MORE countries in the British Isles that are part of this union, Ireland should just submit to it's wishes regardless if how this union tried to bring them into the union was through violence and destruction?

Let me ask you something. If a coalition of the US, Canada, and Mexico marched into the UK with an army and conquered it by shooting anyboddy who stood up to them, and then told you that they were there to make your life better, what would you say? Theyre telling you that it isnt REALLY your country and that you're a terrorist if you try to stand up to them

 

[CCGirl]

Ireland belongs to the Irish people. Simply because British troops came in and stole half of it doesnt mean that all of a sudden they arent entitled to thier country.

So because theres MORE countries in the British Isles that are part of this union, Ireland should just submit to it's wishes regardless if how this union tried to bring them into the union was through violence and destruction?

Let me ask you something. If a coalition of the US, Canada, and Mexico marched into the UK with an army and conquered it by shooting anyboddy who stood up to them, and then told you that they were there to make your life better, what would you say? Theyre telling you that it isnt REALLY your country and that you're a terrorist if you try to stand up to them

/off topic
Kinda like in Iraq, hey?

 

[Steezie]

/off topic
Kinda like in Iraq, hey?

Yes. Half the problems in Iraq now come from us BEING there when people dont WANT us there. After Saddam was taken out of power, most Iraqi citizens were of the mindset "Thank you for your help, now leave us alone".

 

[CCGirl]

Yes. Half the problems in Iraq now come from us BEING there when people dont WANT us there. After Saddam was taken out of power, most Iraqi citizens were of the mindset "Thank you for your help, now leave us alone".

Agreed! That fact just doesnt go well with the Official Version of "us" being the good guys!

 

[Steezie]

Agreed! That fact just doesnt go well with the Official Version of "us" being the good guys!

Us being the good guys is a relative term, it greatly depends on which end of the tank shell you're on

 

[CCGirl]

Us being the good guys is a relative term, it greatly depends on which end of the tank shell you're on

Really? I see it as a matter of humanity...noone deserves to be invaded and occupied in a war of aggression....and people have the right to resist that occupation. So, I support that right for all peoples.

 

[Steezie]

Really? I see it as a matter of humanity...noone deserves to be invaded and occupied in a war of aggression....and people have the right to resist that occupation. So, I support that right for all peoples.

As do I.

Its better to fight and die on your feet than live and die on your knees

 

[Tyndale]

Ireland belongs to the Irish people. Simply because British troops came in and stole half of it doesnt mean that all of a sudden they arent entitled to thier country.

Nonsense Steezie, and I'll show why your Irish nationalism has been gravely in error for all these years.

The island called Ireland was always the true home of the Scots. The name of the country was changed around 1200 A.D.

St. Patrick in his "Confession", 6th century, mentions the sons of the Scotti and the daughters of the chieftains, especially one blessed princess that he baptized (una benedicta Scota)!! All writers up to the 12th century refer to a certain noble inhabitant of the island as the Scottish Tribes.

Dr. James Wylie mentions that there were TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLES dwelling in 'Ireland', "The SCOTS ARE THE MILITARY CLASS; THEY ARE THE NOBLES... The latter [the Hiberni] are spoken of as the COMMONALITY the, sons of the soil" (History of the Scottish Nation, Vol. L, p. 281).

Joseph Ritson, in the Annals of the Caledonians, Picts, and Scots, also notes this distinction amongst the 'Irish':

”The distinction between these two nations [Hiberni and Scots] is manifested in an ancient treatise, written by saint Patrick, and entitled his "Confession" or "Apology," in which the SCOTTI, as being the conquerors, masters, and MILITARY MEN, appear as the NOBILITY, or gentry; FILII SCOTTORUM ET FILII REGULORUM; which he repeats, joining, in both places, the SCOTTI and REGULI, as being SYNONOMOUS EQUIVALENT TERMS; and adding, generally, to the name SCOTTUS, that of REGULUS or NOBILIS; whereas he NEVER calls the native Irish anything but HIBERIONOE, as being the COMMON and ORDINARY PEOPLE. - Vol. 11.Ward D. Laing, Edinburgh. 1828. Pp. 4-5.”

Later in the 12 th century, Saint Malachy became the first Papal Nuncio to Britannia Minor. In his biography which was written by his close friend Bernard of Clairvaux, it mentions that Malachy returning from Rome was erecting a stone oratory at Bangor, having been inspired by the religious monuments in Europe and the local people said, “Good sir, why have you thought good to introduce this novelty into our regions ? We are Scots, not Gauls. What is this frivolity ?”

Lets get these facts right about who has the right to live in the island. Military class noble Scots were on the island before any English, Norman or Anglo-Saxon set foot in it and they lived along-side their common Hiberni (Irish) neighbours......so how come their namesake was totally wiped of the records in Scotia, (Ireland) within the 12th century?


How can a military noble people suddenly loose their identity?

How can the common Hiberni people end up getting the country named after them and all it's inhabitants too??

Did Pope Adrian IV and King Henry II call the island Hibernia, align with the weaker of it's inhabitants, the hiberni people, therefore wiping out the Scots name and sending them to Caledonia, modern Scotland?

 

[TheShiningPath]

Oh god.....

More bullcrap from the worshippers of an outdated monarchy who have oppressed my countrymen on the basis of their Religion and Culture.

 

[aspirine]

We arent asking the Ulsters to leave, we're TELLING the British they need to leave.

The Ulsters can sing for the birds for all most Irish care. Its the BRITISH we have issues with. If an Ulster supports the British, then yes we have issues with it. Just as many issues as we have with other Irish people who support the British. You are mistaking racism for mis-placed political support.

More to current history: The people in the pubs who were shot up just because they were in a Prot Pub have a rather different view of who is being told to leave by whome I think. I've been there, and to me the North is more British than Irish in temperment and culture IME. As for religious differences, for goodness sake the majority of the town council in Londonderry is RC. I do not know if they are Loyalists or Unionists. I do know there is bad blood between the two groups based on years of mutual abuse..
I liked Belfast but loved Galway.
Shiningpath, I suggest you hang out around the Ballyshannon area for a while and get to know the locals on both sides of the border. And how powerful is the British Monarchy really? It is their wealth thats gives them power, not their silly titles. A duke, a prince, A Knight, oh please gimme a break!
"Earls are hot stuff" -- PG Wodehouse.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Oh god.....

More bullcrap from the worshippers of an outdated monarchy who have oppressed my countrymen on the basis of their Religion and Culture.

Thank you Mr. terrorist.

you couldn't have just blown up maggie could you have. its a win win situation but no.