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The Two Beasts and the harlot of Revelation Explained

cgaviria

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I'm not offended. I've already said that you are wise in your own eye. So be it.
 
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Jaxxi

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Why does everything have to be discussed in a particular forum to have credibility? Even if someone is stating their personal beliefs or do all statements have to be based on proven factual statements? If this is the wrong place to ask this I apologize but you were here, not in apologetics...
 
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cgaviria

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They get angry because I'm touching on strong subjects shaking the root of their beliefs using scripture. So they can't help themselves and backfire at me.
 
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Wgw

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@cgavira is engaging in apologetics, attempting to prove his perspective is correct and that of other members, incorrect. What is more, he is doing this in a polemical manner. When someone presents obviously counterfactual statements as fact, I will point that out, and if they do so in a polemical manner, I will do so with great vigour.

The reality is that by and large we are not discussing subjective beliefs in regards to his post, but statements relating to history, ecclesiastical organization and other matters that are simply wrong.
 
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cgaviria

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It might very well be. There is alot of paganism in the American government. The Washington Monument happens to be a giant obelisk, which is a pagan symbol for a phallus, or a penis, and the Vatican also has it. Also American currency, there are pagan symbols of "pyramids" and the all seeing eye in the back of all bills. Christmas and Easter are also pagan holidays. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is something "fishy" going on. Don't let any of these guys fool you into thinking that trying to abstain from things originating from pagan religion is dumb.
 
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Abram's Awakening

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First you must ask yourself, "What is a church?" Is it not a foundation of prophets and apostles as pillars-and Jesus Christ-The Cornerstone? The Word...

The first church was made up of poor fisherman-"Nobody's"-from society's point of view, or from secular standpoints. They were not royalty, nor were they great men or women in the eyes of the world. Yet when the world caught the slightest glimpse of divinity and truth within and among them-what did the world and its authorities do? They cursed them for it. They committed the most violent acts of hatred against them in hopes to eradicate their kind from the face of the earth. These acts have followed them to this day. Why? Because our very existence and the rightful King we stand loyal to-embodies a divine and "other-worldly" truth that has the power move mountains. It has the power to uproot this kingdom, therefore we pose the greatest threat... We always have...

That is why Jews have been sought out to be extinguished for thousands of years. Problem is, they thought we were a "blood-line"(Of the flesh). But they were obviously mistaken, as we indeed turned out as Gentiles in the Spirit...

Not one stone will be left upon another-that will not be torn down...
 
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cgaviria

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The children of Israel were persecuted because of their disobedience. God sent forth various kingdoms to overtake them, and oftentimes take them into captivity. That is different than the persecution the prophets, and the saints of God endure. Why do these endure persecution? Because these speak out against the way of the world. And not just the speaking out, but the way of life of the prophets and the saints are contradictory to the way of the world, and disruptive to societies. Jesus Christ has instructed all that are his to rid ourselves of all possessions and follow after him. And what did those in the early church do? They sold all their possessions, and lived in humility, and followed after Jesus Christ through the word of the apostles. They were all also immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and received the holy spirit, which sealed their salvation and caused them to stop sinning from thereon. These very things disrupt societies and economies because it goes against the way of the world.
 
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cgaviria

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Jaxxi

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Thank you. Yes I have noticed that feathers get ruffled when you're new and present your findings on here that you would think would be found with an open welcome of consideration and gratitude that you even care to discuss such topics but that is not the case. There is a cliquish group of religious based knowledgeable naysayers on here who wish to trump your spirit, make you doubt yourself and get you to close your Bible. Stand strong in the Word and know there are plenty of us who love that you are sharing what you have studied and appreciate your efforts. I find it comforting that you are at least trying and getting a lot of it right. There is no place for rudeness and condemnation when two people speak of the Lord's Word because He is present and people should have a little more respect.
 
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Wgw

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There is a cliquish group of religious based knowledgeable naysayers on here who wish to trump your spirit, make you doubt yourself and get you to close your Bible.

I myself would never ask anyone to close their Bible, or seek to trump someone's spirit, but, I do object to people mishcaracterizing my denomination, other Trinitarian denominations, or making arguments contrary to scripture, historical fact or reason.

There is no place for rudeness and condemnation when two people speak of the Lord's Word because He is present and people should have a little more respect.

I agree entirely on this point. To this end I would ask all members to refer from personally mocking other members or attacking them according to their person rather than their argument, or relying on capitalization to try to shout down their opponents.

Christmas and Easter are also pagan holidays.

No, they are not. Whereas the feast of the Nativity was timed to surpress a pagan observance, the dating of Pascha is directly based on the dating of the Jewish passover, and a desire to observe the Lord's resurrection on a Sunday.
 
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Jaxxi

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I was not making reference to you personally in any way during my post since I have neither formally nor informally had any debate with you on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. I was just sharing my observation from instances I've had in the past with people taking what I had said about how I felt on something and trying to prove it wrong with scripture...I wasn't even stating anything as being a fact...just sharing how I felt and was accused of being pagan and a heretic! Not by you but you get my point. People should learn to discern what is fact, opinion, belief, or feelings and realize that we don't always need scriptures thrown in our faces when we are discussing how we feel about something. Not you..just in general. And if we must use scripture then let us remember what Jesus said the most important commandment was to keep...and keep it.
 
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Wgw

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I agree. If members want to see what a debate between two people of very different views should look like, they should take a look at the debate I am having with @Hogshead1 on Process Theology. We fundamentally disagree but are having an interesting, considerate and mutually edifying exchange.
 
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Jaxxi

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That's excellent. If both people can walk away and feel that they were heard, and respected they can remain open to consider what point the other person was making and compare it to their own ideals that they know to be true and who knows?Someone might actually see someone else's point of view and appreciate it for what it's worth. Bottom line is that it really doesn't matter either way the way it was or the way it is...Jesus is still coming back, Satan is still defeated and the Lord is our God and ALL will know this all too soon. What a glorious time in all of the history of mankind to be alive and be a witness to His glory coming on the clouds. It will not be a day of picnics and butterflies however...God help us all!
 
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Jaxxi

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The points made in this post are why I question the ministries of Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, (do I even say it) Mike Murdock , and these other prosper based "Christians" preaching that God wants to head your finances and He wants to see you wealthy and prosperous. Does He? Does "sowing the seed" refer to your cash in the bank? The cash in your pocket? What your tithing? I don't think those preachers even understand what path they are on. Joyce Meyers put a $6800 toilet in her home. Is that what God wants? How many people could that have fed? I just don't get it....
 
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cgaviria

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Its absolutely despicable. If even Jesus himself being the SON OF GOD didn't anywhere to lay his head on, how much less should we have being yet sinners?

Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head. (Luke 9:58)

Any person truly professing Jesus ought to live humbly as he lived humbly, and came in the form of a servant.
 
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Wgw

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I agree entirely.
 
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Tina W

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What!? You are joking right?
 
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