The two Adams

[Ken Rank]

There are a great deal of similarities between Adam and Yeshua (Jesus)... or the First and Second Adam. Both came into this world without sin. Both were tempted with sin. One gave in and the result was death... the other did not and the result was life.. the breaking of the curse of death.

But I submit that there is another picture worth considering and I offer it to you for comment.

God gave Adam dominion over creation and he instructed him on what he could and could not eat. When Eve came into the picture, we have no record of her being given the instructions that Adam received, but she did reply to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die." Now, we all agree she misquoted God but we also have to recognize that she knew too much detail about what was and was not permissible... she didn't guess that there were all these trees that were good for food but one... she was told even though we don't see that exchange directly.

When she ate, she began to die... but Adam did not. If he did not eat would she have perished and he would have lived on in a perfect state? I think yes... because it was after he ate that death was introduced not only to him but all he had dominion over, all of creation.

I submit that perhaps the second Adam offered himself (ate) to save his bride just as the second Adam gave himself for his bride. In both cases, the Adam would have had life... but both gave something up for the one they loved.

 

[Tolworth John]

it was after he ate that death was introduced not only to him but all he had dominion over, all of creation.

Yes Adam as overseer of creation affected creation when he rebelled against Gods command.

What would hgave happened if only Eve had sinnedis difficult tospeculate about.
Would Eve's children been marked by sin or only her daughters?
Can you imagine the stress that would put upon male/femail relationships?

 

[Ken Rank]

Yes Adam as overseer of creation affected creation when he rebelled against Gods command.

What would hgave happened if only Eve had sinnedis difficult tospeculate about.
Would Eve's children been marked by sin or only her daughters?
Can you imagine the stress that would put upon male/femail relationships?

Could they even have procreated if she was fallen and he wasn't? Just speculation though... not really the topic of the thread.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes Adam as overseer of creation affected creation when he rebelled against Gods command.

What would have happened if only Eve had sinned is difficult to speculate about.
Would Eve's children been marked by sin or only her daughters?
Can you imagine the stress that would put upon male/female relationships?

Could they even have procreated if she was fallen and he wasn't? Just speculation though... not really the topic of the thread.

Well, my answer to this is that what actually caused death to set in was their being separated from the Tree of Life, the fruit of which is what was actually causing them to live eternally.

Had she only eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (i.e. sin), only Eve would have been separated from the Tree of Life, so Adam would have had to watch her die. Could they have had children? Certainly, but the children too would have had to watch their mother slowly succumb to the effects of aging while they and their father did not...

It's an interesting thought to meditate on (what would have happened), but as you say, they both loved their bride so much that they sacrificed to remain with her. And they both died for her. Only the Second Adam died to give His bride life.

 

[Ken Rank]

Well, my answer to this is that what actually caused death to set in was their being separated from the Tree of Life, the fruit of which is what was actually causing them to live eternally.

Had she only eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (i.e. sin), only Eve would have been separated from the Tree of Life, so Adam would have had to watch her die. Could they have had children? Certainly, but the children too would have had to watch their mother slowly succumb to the effects of aging while they and their father did not...

It's an interesting thought to meditate on (what would have happened), but as you say, they both loved their bride so much that they sacrificed to remain with her. And they both died for her. Only the Second Adam died to give His bride life.

On being separated from the Tree of Life... I hold that view but tend to say it differently. I think there was a fall, and Adam would have began to decay and IF he had access to the Tree of Life he would have continued to live but in a fallen state. I am 51, in pretty good shape but the knees still hurt on occasion, back, sickness and other things from time to time... imagine a 6000 year old Adam with access to the thing that can give him life but having continued to decay all this time. That would make God booting Adam from the Garden cutting off access to the Tree of Life an act of GRACE... allowing Adam to die rather that live on in a state of decay.

 

[Tolworth John]

Could they even have procreated if she was fallen and he wasn't? Just speculation though... not really the topic of the thread.

Why not, even as a fallen woman she was healthy and fertile. Jewish tradition is that she had 70 children.
So I see nothing to stop a sinless Adam having children with a sinfull Eve.

 

[Hidden In Him]

On being separated from the Tree of Life... I hold that view but tend to say it differently. I think there was a fall, and Adam would have began to decay and IF he had access to the Tree of Life he would have continued to live but in a fallen state. I am 51, in pretty good shape but the knees still hurt on occasion, back, sickness and other things from time to time... imagine a 6000 year old Adam with access to the thing that can give him life but having continued to decay all this time. That would make God booting Adam from the Garden cutting off access to the Tree of Life an act of GRACE... allowing Adam to die rather that live on in a state of decay.

Ha! Yeah, I know I've been wanting to go home for decades now, LoL.

I still think the fruit from the Tree of Life is what was giving them eternal life, because otherwise there wouldn't have really been a need for God to guard the way to the Tree with angels and swords drawn, aside from it being a formalism. But then I wasn't there either, so I suppose it's something we'll find out in Heaven.

But it's certainly interesting "food" for thought.

 

[Ken Rank]

Why not, even as a fallen woman she was healthy and fertile. Jewish tradition is that she had 70 children.
So I see nothing to stop a sinless Adam having children with a sinfull Eve.

I am not sure I can go there. Sinlessness copulating with fallen beings? Adam had no sin until he ate... he couldn't "see" that he was naked which might indicate a different level of sight or even being in light itself... she would not have been. But, we are only speculating over something that in the grand scheme of things doesn't really matter.

 

[Ken Rank]

I still think the fruit from the Tree of Life is what was giving them eternal life, because otherwise there wouldn't have really been a need for God to guard the way to the Tree with angels and swords drawn, aside from it being a formalism

I am agreeing with you.... I think he sinned when he ate but I think what keeps him (us) from eternal life is access to the tree.

Gotta run... heading to a Feast of Trumpets gathering. Be blessed.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Gotta run... heading to a Feast of Trumpets gathering. Be blessed.

Have fun, and same to you.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Jesus the God-Man was the NEW sinless Adam. Eve was deceived into disobeying. Adam knowingly disobeyed with his eyes wide open...He SAW Eve eat!

Romans 5 (NASB)
12 Therefore, just as through one man (A&E/Adam) sin entered into the world, and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
(all men have been born with a "sin nature")
13 for until the (Mosiac) Law sin was in the world, but sin is not IMPUTED when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses,
even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam,(WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE!)
who is a type of Him who was to come.(Jesus)