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Strange definition of repent. Proxy repentance? Bet the LDS would even find that unusual.
Are you seeing a need to redefine "repent"?
Do you mean an insult by the lower case here? Just curious.
And your understanding of Calvinism here is as bizarre as any I have heard in 30 years.
The greater point here is that God responded to the attitudes and actions of man.
Does that make him less than sovereign?
Actually those whom think it is their free will that saves them think they have soveriegnty over God.. Believing that it is by mans choice and not Gods that saves.. Making Gods will only applyable to mans.. We say God is soveriegn! saying mens will has no power over Gods will..Why is this such a foreign concept that God gives his moral law and expects his creation to abide by it seeing he is their provider and sustainer?
Ge 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
WHY?
Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Could not God have predestinated at least a few of those people to be righteous? What did God expect if he created them for the day of destruction? Why would he need to repent if his sovereign intention was to destroy these predestinated to destruction with a flood these adulterers, murders, and cutthroats?
I wonder if God really did repent and if he was truly grieved at his heart for the manner his creation treated his righteous law?
I wonder if he would not have repented if man would have obeyed him and done right deeds? I wonder if he would have still destroyed them if they had of done right? Did they have a choice? Enquiring minds want to know!
Can and does God respond to men?
The calvinists have God in a very small box and he is not allowed to be any bigger than they say he can be. The calvinists are SOVERIEGN over god!
Aren't we argumentative today!10 posts in 11 months.
Argyle or crew?
BTW, what is "Calvanism" ???
Actually those whom think it is their free will that saves them think they have soveriegnty over God.. Believing that it is by mans choice and not Gods that saves.. Making Gods will only applyable to mans.. We say God is soveriegn! saying mens will has no power over Gods will..
nobdysfool said:No, and it does not indicate that God subsumes His sovereignty to the attitudes and actions of men. That is where you err. God responds to the attitudes and actions of men, but He does so as Sovereign, not in order to be Sovereign. He does not need to prove His Sovereignty. By the very fact that He is God, He IS Sovereign. He does as He pleases, and no man has the right to say, "what are You doing?" He chooses to save whom He Wills, and to leave others in their sins, to show forth His Grace to those He saves, and His Wrath against sin, and sinners. That is the action of a True Sovereign.
You both are trapped by the language of scripture and your arguments make no sense. Go back and read what is actually said in the passage and then come back and try again please!
You both are trapped by the language of scripture and your arguments make no sense. Go back and read what is actually said in the passage and then come back and try again please!
What doesn't make sense?
GOD RESPONDED TO MAN BECAUSE MAN EXERTED HIS WILL ABOVE THE WILL OF GOD WHETHER IT AGREES WITH YOUR THEOLOGY OR NOT? The text says so!
there is no text in scripture that EVER says "man exerted his will ABOVE THE WILL OF GOD "
such a concept is false and blaspheme.
God 'responded' to man after the flood with MERCY (Noah) and Judgment .
you are aware that God does not REPENT , God does not change His mind ?
the 'repentance' in Gen 6 is one of heart sorrow , and you think God didn't already know what man was going to do before he did it ?
The Flood was in God's decree before this earth was even formed.
Acts 15
[18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
"God is not a man that he should lie, or the son of man that He should repent. Has he said, and will He not do it? Or has He decreed, and shall it not come to pass?"
God is in control. Man is not. That does not mean that man's sin did not grieve God's heart, but you take that way too far.
Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked;
Re 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
The death of the wicked does not please God. I am not guessing about this. So far, several of youse has had comments on this but none of you have dealt with the text. You have each one brought calvinists doctrines to bear upon the text and the text will not support them. That, however, has not deterred a single one of you. You force the text to conform to your preferred doctrine. This is dangerous!
Wow.. so now man is more powerful than God according to you.. God has to now submit to His created? Whew where in all scripture do we ever read this..GOD RESPONDED TO MAN BECAUSE MAN EXERTED HIS WILL ABOVE THE WILL OF GOD WHETHER IT AGREES WITH YOUR THEOLOGY OR NOT? The text says so!
Who ever said that God delights in destroying the wicked? All are welcome at the cross.. But GOD knowing all men is the one to whom HE gives HIS gifts to.. He is the gift Giver..
Please do not insult the intelligence of those of us who read your doctrines every day. To say that you believe all are welcome at the cross is misinformation and contrary to your systematic scheme that says God predestinated most of humanity to hell. He created them for the day of destruction. They cannot believe in him unless he regenerates them first, something he will not do because he hates them (Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated, you quote often). Unelect cannot be saved by the cross or any other way. The suggestion that they are welcome at the cross in calvinist theology is absurd and insulting.
I ask a calvinist one time if he believed that a person who was not chosen by the Lord to be saved before the foundation of the world could ever be saved under any circumstances or if there were any scenario where one who had been chosen could finally be lost and go to hell and he answered "NO" to both questions.
If you agree with this man, would you please inform us why an invitation to an unelect man to come to the cross of Jesus Christ would make a hill-o-beans of difference to him, except it might make him more of a sinner. Enquiring minds want to know!
You people cannot stand by your own doctrines and I suppose you just expect us to forget about all the things you say. I really think the Mormon doctrines are at least as close to the truth as calvinist doctrines.
If you cannot give a better response than this one, I would just soon you did not answer.
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