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eksesar

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Dont you have any other things to discuss. This had been yawned before:

http://www.christianforums.com/t3337376


Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 "We carried Ka'b's head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah's enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf's head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah's Cause.

Tabari VII:147 “Amr was sent by Muhammad to kill Abu Sufyan [the Quraysh leader and merchant]. The Prophet said, ‘Go to Abu Sufyan and kill him.'

Ishaq:304
Tabari VII:62 “I cut off Abu Jahl’s head and brought it to the Messenger. ‘O Allah’s Prophet, this is the head of the enemy of Allah.’ Muhammad said, ‘Praise be to Allah.’”

Ishaq:535 “The women began to cry after learning about Ja’far’s death. Disturbed, Muhammad told Abd-Rahman to silence them. When they wouldn’t stop wailing, Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Go and tell them to be quiet, and if they refuse throw dust in their mouths.’”

Tabari VII:97 "The next morning, the Jews were in a state of fear on account of our attack upon the enemy of Allah. After the assassination, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill every Jew.'"


“The Prophet commanded that the ruin should be dug up. Some treasure was extracted from it. Then Muhammad asked Kinanah for the rest. He refused to surrender it; so Allah's Messenger gave orders concerning him to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah's chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”


Tabari IX:34 “Khuwaysirah came and stood by the Prophet as he was giving gifts to the people and said, ‘Muhammad, I have seen what you have done today.’ ‘Well, what did you see?’ He said, ‘I don’t think you have been fair.’ Allah’s Messenger became angry. ‘Woe to you! If justice is not to be found with me, then with whom is it to be found?’” “Umar said, ‘Muhammad, allow me to kill him.’” Ishaq:595 “The Apostle said, ‘Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.””

Ishaq:315 “It was so criminal, men could hardly imagine it. Muhammad was ennobled because of the bloody fighting.

the quote above was taken from this website

my questions is
- Cruelty inside Islam ? just in oldest era or until today ? why?

- Rapist in Quran allowed, just in oldest era or until today ? it ussually happenned in Indonesia especially in 1997 -1998 during the crisis which are many of the China Girls raped, killed, etc.

- Muslim hatred to the Jews and Christians. just in oldest era or until today ? I can feel it because I am living in Indonesia.

- if you are living in Indonesia presently (in the month of Ramadhan), I always heard in muslim song about LOVE, LOVE and LOVE. I can see much far far away from Love.

quite ironic
 
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tothelight

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Let us see what Quran says on unncessary and hate-oriented-killing of others.


017.033
YUSUFALI: Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

004.090
YUSUFALI: Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

Let us see it through prohphet's deeds,-

- When the Prophet of Islam won the last battle against the Paganism and he captured Mecca, he did not revenge from any of his enemy!! Even he forgave '' Hind '', this woman who cut the body of the uncle of the prophet (Hamza) into small parts and she put them in her mouth to show her hate to the prophet and to the Muslims!

The prophet asked the pagan Arab after his great victory: what you think I will do with you now.

The pagan leaders replied: We know you are good cousin ......

The prophet relied: Well, you are free now ......

Peace

Tothelight
 
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samsonknight

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somthing that ponders my mind. when there were crusades between christians and muslims 1000 years ago, the christians disobayed what the bible said. they went to war even though jesus obviously said "whoever lives by the sword dies by the sword". the christians disobayed gods law.

the muslims obayed gods law as to what the prothet muhumid (please forgive spelling) saying whoever is an infidel is an ememy and deserves death.
 
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tothelight

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What God's law is that?. Don't you know about the jews and christians lived peacefully under Islamic regime?..
 
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Islam_mulia

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I assumed you want a fruitful discussion, and so let's have one.


1. You quoted the story from Tabari on Ka'b bin Ashraf.
Can you pls also let us have the whole story, ie quote us from Tabari VII:93, 94... and evrything that tells us the full story. Otherwise, how are we going to figure out what really happened to Ka'b.

2. I also assumed you are familiar with the Arab custom of honor and protection of their women from shame and ridicule. If not, once you have established para (1) you will have some indication of this.

Similarly, for all that you quote. Give us the full story, and not quote out of context....

You cannot be accusing me of being unreasonable, can you?
 
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Snowbunny

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What God's law is that?. Don't you know about the jews and christians lived peacefully under Islamic regime?..

That is not true... After being attacked and having all the land taken many of our greatest Churches and Cathedrals were destroyed or turned into Mosques, we werent allowed to build new Churches or pray publicly, Christians were not allowed to be in government, but frequently were, Christians were sold as slaves, force to marry, forced to convert, forced into muslim armies as slaves and forced to pay large taxes for "protection."

Spain flourished under Muslim rule... but the Spanish suffered, there are still stories in Andalusia about the betrayal of Julian and the horrible things that happened to us as a result...

It was the same wherever the Muslim armies went...

we shouldnt hold that against muslims... but we cant ignore the mistreatment of our ancestors or their heroism in taking back their freedom...
 
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Futuwwa

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Is this the history of Spain under Islamic rule? I wonder where you have got this view. I would take Spanish folklore with a grain of salt, after all you are a nation-state born through holy (re)conquest and inquisition.

I know things turned for the worse for Jews and Christians after the Murabitun came into power in the late 11th century, but under the Cordoban caliphate?
 
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Snowbunny

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Is this the history of Spain under Islamic rule? I wonder where you have got this view. I would take Spanish folklore with a grain of salt, after all you are a nation-state born through holy (re)conquest and inquisition.

We cannot ignore our own history during our subjugation, because we did bad things out of revenge later during the inquisition...

I know things turned for the worse for Jews and Christians after the Murabitun came into power in the late 11th century, but under the Cordoban caliphate?

The Muslims and the Moors did many good things for Spain, because of them Spain never had the Dark Ages... and I certainly would never have existed without them. And there were many things the Moors did for Christians that the Christians did not do for Moors after the reconquista.

But the good things that came from the Muslim invasion and rule came at a very high price that we were never given the opportunity to choose if we wanted. The abuse and humiliation Spanish people experienced from the Moors is what led to the reconquista and the terrible backlash against mujedars and morisco in the following years. And that is why Spanish people cringe a little bit when people talk about the Moors, especially if they try to say they were good times or somehow desireable...

The world and our history is full of gray, so the best thing we can do is forgive, but not forget, the bad things that happened, and appreciate the good things. I think maybe the Iraqis would understand this... it is a very similar story.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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but i thought that the Koran teaches different?
The Koran teaches a different Jesus and "Gospel" than our Bible does.
 
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Futuwwa

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Well, my point was just, were things always that bad under Islamic rule? Are you sure that the oppression suffered during the Murabitin (and Almohad) era didn't make you forget that things weren't as bad earlier, under the Cordoban caliphate?

After all, it was the reconquistador who shaped your nation and wrote your history, not the Christian under Moorish rule.

But then, I'm not overly knowledgeable about the history of Andalusia. I'm more into my own favourite, the Ottoman Empire
 
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Snowbunny

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Well, my point was just, were things always that bad under Islamic rule? Are you sure that the oppression suffered during the Murabitin (and Almohad) era didn't make you forget that things weren't as bad earlier, under the Cordoban caliphate?

As I said before, the world and our history is gray. There are times the Moors did not completely mistreat the Christians, usually when they felt their rule over them was more secure... but at the times they did not feel secure, which was often, they became abusive. But it is a very dark gray... overall the Muslims were successful as a nation... but the Spaniards only partook in the benefits of that success limitedly... mostly we were oppressed and humiliated.

After all, it was the reconquistador who shaped your nation and wrote your history, not the Christian under Moorish rule.

That's actually not true... Andalusian folklore is a very old oral tradition that dates back even before the Moors. But it is not just the Andalusians, all Spain remembered the mistreatment of the Moors.

But then, I'm not overly knowledgeable about the history of Andalusia. I'm more into my own favourite, the Ottoman Empire

lol well... I do not really think Spanish history is something I consider a hobby or favor... I'm from a very strong hidalgo background (thus the Dona), so even in Mexico my family tried to preserve our roots... my grandmother used to tell me all kinds of stories about where we come from... including our morisco line. One of my ancestors was from a noble Moorish family... they had a title Sharif which was kind of like a knight... there is actually a famous Andalusian story about that, the girl was given to him as part of an exchange after a peace treaty...

lol no feminism back then...
 
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Snowbunny

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@Jayda:
Doña? Does that mean that you're Spanish nobility?

Something like that... it is kind of a meaningless title today, like "Sir" or "Lady" ... especially in Mexico where it was a remnant of Spanish rule and later used as part of a cruel "Castas" system to seperate Criollos from Mestizos... there is a very old Mexican from Veracruz who owns a Mexican restaurant in NYC I used to visit in school, he would insist on calling me "Dona de Tejada" even though all his grandkids and everybody from that neighborhood just called me Jayda (its a joke name), but that is kind of that attitude of that generation...

I'm going to be the last in my family... I did not marry into a hidalgo family so my girls cannot use the title... i think that is kind of sad... i mean its not a vanity thing, but it is a nice reminder where you came from, and you cant know where you are going unless you know where you came from... but im not fully accepting yet that my kids arent just me, they are my husband too... and his family has its own rich history... lol my husband is a direct descendant of Alexander Hamilton!

So this will be interesting...
 
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Bookofknowledge

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but i thought that the Koran teaches different?

Hi Samsonknight,

Thank you for participating. It's always good to interact with people to find out the truth.

It's good that you "thought" that Qur'aan teaches different but actually I want you to think about this... If there is Only One God who created Mankind from Adam to the last person how will be born on the day of Resurrection - do you think the Prophets and Messengers sent by This One God will teach different?

11:120
All these stories of the prior Rasools that We relate to you (O Muhammad) are to strengthen your heart therewith; through these you have received the knowledge of reality and the believers have gotten admonition and a reminder.

12:109
All the Rasools that We sent before you, O Muhammad, were human beings, to whom We sent Our Revelations after choosing them from the people of their town. Have these unbelievers not traveled through the land and seen what was the end of those who passed away before them? From their destiny you should know that the home of the hereafter is better for those who are righteous. Why don't you understand?

4:165
All these Rasools conveyed good news to mankind and admonished them so that, after conveying the message through the Rasools, people should have no excuse to plead against Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.
 
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