The Truth About Abortion

SPF · Jan 29, 2020

SkyWriting said:
Local law is Gods morality.

What Does the Bible Say About Authority?

So if a local law says abortion is illegal you’ll believe abortion is immoral?

Why even engage in this topic then since your moral compass is so subjective?

What’s right and wrong to you can change with each passing law, not to mention it changes as you get in your car and drive from one county into another.

Im not sure how you handle conflicting local laws though. Do you just side with the one that has jurisdiction where you’re standing?

I guess that means if you were in Germany during WW2 you would have happily and confidently served as an executioner at the extermination camps.

Good on you, champ.

Josheb · Jan 29, 2020

SkyWriting said:
Local law is Gods morality.

What Does the Bible Say About Authority?

No, local law is God's authority. Human laws are often immoral. Owning people, for example, is directly contrary to God's law. The Hebrew practice of indentured service based on the Jubilee cycle was radically different than western slavery in which people owned others who were deemed 3/5 of a person (see Ex 21 and Dt 15). So too is the indiscriminate killing of humans against God's morality.

RaymondG · Jan 29, 2020

coffee4u said:
Think about it this way, when you hear the words 'murder, killing, tearing limb from limb' what is your reaction?
Then think on the words 'abortion, termination of pregnancy, induced miscarriage'
What is your reaction?

Words have power and the words most often associated with killing the unborn are designed to soften what is really happening. It makes it sound more acceptable and not so horrific.
From an abortion site
Surgical Abortion - Awake under local anaesthetic | BPAS
A hand-held suction device or suction machine gently empties your uterus.

vs stark reality
*warning graphic*
A suction tube (27 times stronger than a home vacuum cleaner) is inserted into the womb. The powerful suction tears the baby apart limb from limb and sucks it from the womb along with the placenta. The baby's remains are deposited into an attached waste bottle.

The motivation of the abortion clinic is to minimise reality so people feel better about what they are doing. Our motivation is to show reality.

God doesn't make a distinction between the living outside of the womb or the living inside of the womb.
Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

OK, I understand now. Some feel that their argument for the unborn is weak.....and they are unable to convince anyone with reason and intellectual knowledge. Therefore they must try to appeal to the emotions....... Add graphic language and barbaric procedures, (which are not likely used in the majority of cases), to make one ignore facts and forget about the mind....and act on the emotion.... Im sure you've heard of how distraught people after watching old procedures of abortions.....After watching is the perfect time to get them to believe anything you say afterwards....

I say, one carrying the truth, need not try and cloud sound judgement and reason, with emotional distressing language. The truth is usually enough.

It is like one, who cannot convince another of the Goodness of God and the benefits of following Him.....introducing Hell fire and torment..as an incentive to believe what they are saying....

But the truth is, the facts of Salvation and evident in Your life should be enough to persuade anyone to follow Christ..... the avoidance of a punishment should be icing on a cake.....as opposed to being the whole cake, and the joy of serving, being the icing....

All in all......If you feel you have no argument, or a weak one.....trying to appeal the the emotions......., getting and emotional reaction...is the thing to do......For in this state, people are more likely to act without thinking.

SPF · Jan 29, 2020

RaymondG said:
OK, I understand now.

It would seem that you actually don't quite yet understand.

RaymondG said:
Some feel that their argument for the unborn is weak.....and they are unable to convince anyone with reason and intellectual knowledge.

I find the argument for the immorality of the 98.5% of abortions to be ironclad. Both Biblically and logically. You just seem to be incapable of grasping that abortion is in fact the killing of the unborn.

RaymondG said:
Therefore they must try to appeal to the emotions....... Add graphic language and barbaric procedures, (which are not likely used in the majority of cases), to make one ignore facts and forget about the mind....and act on the emotion....

This is another spot where you are mistaken. What actually happens in reality is that people try to downplay the facts and make abortion sound less like what it is in reality. Therefore, what you're accusing those who argue against abortion as doing is actually what those who support abortion do, but in the reverse. By masking the factual truth of what abortion is, they try to emotionally appease those considering it.

RaymondG said:
I say, one carrying the truth, need not try and cloud sound judgement and reason, with emotional distressing language. The truth is usually enough.

I completely agree. And the truth is that abortion is the intentional and purposeful killing of the unborn.

coffee4u · Jan 29, 2020

RaymondG said:
OK, I understand now. Some feel that their argument for the unborn is weak.....and they are unable to convince anyone with reason and intellectual knowledge. Therefore they must try to appeal to the emotions....... Add graphic language and barbaric procedures, (which are not likely used in the majority of cases), to make one ignore facts and forget about the mind....and act on the emotion.... Im sure you've heard of how distraught people after watching old procedures of abortions.....After watching is the perfect time to get them to believe anything you say afterwards....

I say, one carrying the truth, need not try and cloud sound judgement and reason, with emotional distressing language. The truth is usually enough.

It is like one, who cannot convince another of the Goodness of God and the benefits of following Him.....introducing Hell fire and torment..as an incentive to believe what they are saying....

But the truth is, the facts of Salvation and evident in Your life should be enough to persuade anyone to follow Christ..... the avoidance of a punishment should be icing on a cake.....as opposed to being the whole cake, and the joy of serving, being the icing....

All in all......If you feel you have no argument, or a weak one.....trying to appeal the the emotions......., getting and emotional reaction...is the thing to do......For in this state, people are more likely to act without thinking.

This is the truth. The abortion clinics are sugar coating it, we are removing that.
Vacuum extraction is used between 3 to 12 weeks gestation. The baby has it's body, head, arms and legs by 8 weeks. If someone is going to go for an abortion they need to know exactly what they are removing, not some blob of tissue but a developing human being.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

Josheb said:
No, local law is God's authority. Human laws are often immoral. Owning people, for example, is directly contrary to God's law. The Hebrew practice of indentured service based on the Jubilee cycle was radically different than western slavery in which people owned others who were deemed 3/5 of a person (see Ex 21 and Dt 15). So too is the indiscriminate killing of humans against God's morality.

I disagree. The Flood for example.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

SPF said:
So if a local law says abortion is illegal you’ll believe abortion is immoral?Why even engage in this topic then since your moral compass is so subjective?

Here is why:

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 2
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

2 Corinthians 2
For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

1 Peter 2
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

Romans 13
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

1 Timothy 2:2
For kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

coffee4u said:
This is the truth. The abortion clinics are sugar coating it, we are removing that.
Vacuum extraction is used between 3 to 12 weeks gestation. The baby has it's body, head, arms and legs by 8 weeks. If someone is going to go for an abortion they need to know exactly what they are removing, not some blob of tissue but a developing human being.

Women know it and cry afterwards.

SPF · Jan 29, 2020

SkyWriting said:
Here is why:

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 2
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

2 Corinthians 2
For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

1 Peter 2
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

Romans 13
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

1 Timothy 2:2
For kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

So if a local law says abortion is illegal you’ll believe abortion is immoral?

Why even engage in this topic then since your moral compass is so subjective?

What’s right and wrong to you can change with each passing law, not to mention it changes as you get in your car and drive from one county into another.

Im not sure how you handle conflicting local laws though. Do you just side with the one that has jurisdiction where you’re standing?

I guess that means if you were in Germany during WW2 you would have happily and confidently served as an executioner at the extermination camps.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

Josheb said:
The Hebrew practice of indentured service based on the Jubilee cycle was radically different than western slavery in which people owned others who were deemed 3/5 of a person (see Ex 21 and Dt 15).

Because the beatings didn't last as many years back then?

1 Peter 2:18-20
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

Exodus 7
13The taskmasters were urgent, saying, “Complete your work, your daily task each day, as when there was straw.” 14And the foremen of the people of Israel, whom Pharaoh’s taskmasters had set over them, were beaten and were asked, “Why have you not done all your task of making bricks today and yesterday, as in the past?”

Tropical Wilds · Jan 29, 2020

redleghunter said:
Did not send you to any such a site. You should check what’s going on with your device and pop ups.

LoL, right. Aaaaaany way...

Tropical Wilds · Jan 29, 2020

redleghunter said:
Ok you dismiss actual state and federal government data presented. That is what he presented, actual data. So you dismiss without providing rebuttal. Got it.

I explained my rebuttal and provided links. If the source is good enough for you, then fabulous, but I maintain my view.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

SPF said:
Im not sure how you handle conflicting local laws though. Do you just side with the one that has jurisdiction where you’re standing?

Absolutely. How many missionaries were beaten to death for not following local laws?

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

SPF said:
What’s right and wrong to you can change with each passing law, not to mention it changes as you get in your car and drive from one county into another.

You are in deep do do if you don't know the laws of every country you drive into.
One word spoken to the wrong person and you might not be seen again.
Assuming you are allowed to drive there.

SPF · Jan 29, 2020

SkyWriting said:
You are in deep do do if you don't know the laws of every country you drive into.
One word spoken to the wrong person and you might not be seen again.
Assuming you are allowed to drive there.

So you honestly and truly believe that the Nazis did nothing immoral during WWII? You honestly believe that Pol Pot did nothing immoral with the mass genocide?

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

SPF said:
So you honestly and truly believe that the Nazis did nothing immoral during WWII? You honestly believe that Pol Pot did nothing immoral with the mass genocide?

Would that change what scripture says? Remember who wrote the scriptures?
Genocide was not a new event for Jews.

8I will bring you into the land that I swore to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. I will give it to you for a possession. I am the LORD.’” 9Moses spoke thus to the people of Israel, but they did not listen to Moses, because of their broken spirit and harsh slavery.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

SPF said:
So you honestly and truly believe that the Nazis did nothing immoral during WWII? You honestly believe that Pol Pot did nothing immoral with the mass genocide?

Would that change scripture if I did or not?
You're going to let my opinion be that
important that you need my view?

But I will answer your question. If you are a prison guard
or a prisoner, or even a prisoner in charge of
other prisoners lives...follow the rules of your authorities.

Glad I could help!

SPF · Jan 29, 2020

SkyWriting said:
Would that change scripture if I did or not? You're going to let my opinion be that important that you need my view?

I think we know your view. You would happily be one of the concentration camp guards, believing you were obeying God while overseeing the massacre of His creation.

I’ve honestly never seen such a warped and distorted view of morality.

It’s amazing how much we can mess up our theology when we have nobody to hold us accountable. I would imagine you came up with this belief in your own and live on an island of one with your ethical views.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

SPF said:
I think we know your view. You would happily be one of the concentration camp guards, believing you were obeying God while overseeing the massacre of His creation.

I’ve honestly never seen such a warped and distorted view of morality.

It’s amazing how much we can mess up our theology when we have nobody to hold us accountable. I would imagine you came up with this belief in your own and live on an island of one with your ethical views.

I was reading scripture and discovered it.
What Does the Bible Say About Authority?

Here it is direct from Jesus, while submitting to his death:

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

SPF · Jan 29, 2020

SkyWriting said:
I was reading scripture and discovered it.
What Does the Bible Say About Authority?

Here it is direct from Jesus, while submitting to his death:

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

If I was the only person in thousands of years of Christian history to think morality worked in a way that seemed to contradict everything ever taught.... I might question whether or not I was interpreting Scripture correctly.

But hey, if you want to think you’re the one person in all of Christian history to discover the truth about morality then well... good luck with that.

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