The True Identity of the Restrainer Finally Revealed

Jeffrey Bowden

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Hi @YaakovBenYochanan and everyone else. I just joined because this thread caught my eye.

Anyhow, I wanted to share my opinion on what the 'falling away' is. I believe an important clue is in this verse...

2 Thessalonians 2:2
"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."


See the word 'shaken' in the above verse?

We see it here in association with the stars falling...

Matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"


I believe that the 'falling stars' are Angels.

We see this theme in Daniel...

Daniel 8:10
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.


There are other verses I could post but basically, I believe that the 'falling away' could be a reference to fallen angels.

OK. Have a good day!
You're taking one word (shaken) out of context. 2 Thessalonians 2:2: "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

"Shaken in mind" is a phrase meaning "confused." Notice that verse includes "nor by letter as from us." Paul's flock was confused by a fraudulent letter they received, that was made to look like it came from Paul. That letter stated his flock had missed the rapture and we're now in the Trib. That is why why Paul said, "nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Are the Angels that fall confused after being shaken? Or do the Angels fall because they are not confused?
I am referring to the phrase, "shaken in mind," only. That is a phrase where all three of those words work together to mean "confused."
 
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The Liturgist

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Firstly, Jesus Christ is clearly identified by the Nicene Creed* and by the New Testament text which of course agrees with it (since the Nicene Creed in its 381 recension is the most reliable summary of New Testament doctrine), as being God incarnate, and therefore, as the incarnate Son and Word of God, He cannot be restrained by the devil, or by any anti-Christ, since being fully God and fully man, coequal and coeternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, there exists divine omnipotence, which means that God’s power is absolutely unbounded.

Rather, any restraint that exists on the anti-Christ is some other institution ordained by God for that purpose, but of course, God can restrain the anti-Christ and other demonic entities any which way. And it is the apostolic doctrine of the early church, preserved by all traditional churches, as my Lutheran, Orthodox, Anglican and Catholic friends such as @MarkRohfrietsch @prodromos @HTacianas @ViaCrucis @dzheremi @chevyontheriver @Shane R and the indomitable and inimitable force of nature that is @Xeno.of.athens , all of whom I love very much, can confirm, is that God restrains the devil, allowing our adversary to act only to such a degree as is ultimately beneficial for the faithful, and detrimental to himself, so that our faith might be pure, like gold tested in the fire, as we see, for example, in Job.

So the idea of an anti-Christ or the anti-Christ having some kind of independent agency whereby they can restrain Christ our True God is frankly preposterous. One typological anti-Christ might restrain the ultimate anti-Christ, but not Christ Himself, for He, being the incarnate Son and Word of God, having risen from the dead triumphant over death, is beyond all restraint. Indeed, in the Resurrection he seems to have even passed through doors and been otherwise able to move at will through creation, even beyond the miracle of walking on water earlier in the Gospels.

This antichrist could be the papacy, the final pope, or even a false messiah whom the Jews might hail as the messiah, but later turns out to be the son of satan. I tend to believe the latter, although I believe the papacy will work together with him.

I had greatly hoped the idea that people would associate the anti-Christ with the office of the Papacy had gone out of fashion in the 18th century, as its the sort of sectarian polemic one expects to find in, say, the Westminster Confession of Faith, and other relics of the various Wars of Religion and the English Civil War of the 17th century.

Also, which Papacy? Are you aware that the bishops of Alexandria have been called Pope for centuries longer than the Bishop of Rome? And there are two of them, with that title, due to a disagreement at Chalcedon in 451, which has since largely been resolved, to the extent that His Beatitude Theodore II of Alexandria and His Holiness Theodore II of Alexandria (the former of the Alexandrian Greek Orthodox Church, the latter of the Coptic Orthodox Church) get on very well, and have formed an ecumenical agreement, although neither Church of Alexandria has ever claimed its Pope to be supreme over its other bishops (indeed a Coptic Pope once got his mitre stomped by a diocesan bishop for starting the divine liturgy without the bishop, when that bishop was unavoidably detained, which is a canonical violation of the territory of the diocesan bishop according to the Apostolic Canons, a rebuke which the Coptic Pope accepted, although in the Roman church I suspect stomping the mitre of Pope Francis would be a career-limiting move for most Catholic bishops (although it might survive, whereas the old Coptic mitre, being a sort of pumpkin-shaped construction, likely was flattened beyond repair, but I would not recommend it, although I do suspect I echo the sentiments of many Anglicans, including most high church Anglicans and Episcopalians, when I express my heartfelt wish that Archbishop Justin Welby of Canterbury, the primus inter pares of the Anglican Communion, would get himself a new mitre, as his mitre with the three dolphins has been a spectacular eyesore, in my opinion at least, and he has consistently used it preferentially, except on the most solemn occasions, throughout his archepiscopacy. I suppose the dolphins were intended to invoke the Trinity, which is good, and a love for creation, also good, but the execution was tacky, and underscores the importance of dignity, tradition and a unified simplicity or elegance of form and concept when executing liturgical artwork. But I digress.

At any rate, there are other Popes as well, anti-Popes, according to the Vatican, but given Sedevacantism, and given the recent controversy over Fiducia Supplicans, it seems quite possible a scenario could occur in which there are, for not the first time, multiple reasonable contenders to the title of Bishop of Rome (as was the case during the schism towards the end of the Avignon Papacy, when there were three Popes, or in the early third century, when you had a legitimate Pope but also St. Hippolytus, an important and highly respected anti-Pope, both of whom were martyred together after a reconciliation by the Roman pagans, and are thus venerated as martyrs.

By the way, as an interesting aside, in the Orthodox Church many believe the Roman Empire and its various successor governments, including the Ottoman Empire, Tsarist Russia, and even the Soviet Union, and its various successors, have acted as the brakes on the anti-Christ. I am not extremely well versed in this eschatological concept, but basically the idea is that when this government or group of governments collapses, the resulting anarchical crises would provide the perfect conditions for the arrival of the man of lawlessness.

However, since we are warned that the exact time of the arrival of the anti-Christ is unknowable, and since preparation for our own death and facing the dread judgement seat of Christ is equally good as preparation for dealing with the Eschaton, since either way, we get judged by Christ Pantocrator and then either enter into the World to Come or are by our own voluntary misotheism damned the outer darkness as a mercy, less we be tormented by close proximity to God, which for the unfaithful and unprepared would be a torture, for His infinite Love would be experienced as infinite Wrath, I myself am inclined to regard eschatological speculations as to the exact identity of the anti-Christ and his precursors to be of limited spiritual value, although admittedly they are interesting and can attract people to pay attention to the faith, but are a bit like signs and wonders - not a great foundation for a truly robust faith, and we have very little way of knowing with any reasonable degree of confidence what actually awaits us in the Eschaton.

*The Nicene Creed is scriptural - see the CF Statement of Faith, which provides scriptural support for all parts of it CF Statement of Faith
 
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parousia70

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Paul's flock was confused by a fraudulent letter they received, that was made to look like it came from Paul. That letter stated his flock had missed the rapture and we're now in the Trib. That is why why Paul said, "nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
What methodology are you using to arrive at the conclusion that the Thessalonians had already received a fraudulent letter purporting to be authored by Paul?
 
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Qubit

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Is the King the one who holds the keys?
Matthew 16:19

That is an interesting question. I think you are on to something. There is a key given to the Star that falls...

Revelation 9:1
"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."


I am assuming that Jesus gives this entity the key. Is the Star that falls the False Prophet?

Here is a theory...

The King of the Bottomless Pit (Abaddon/Apollyon) is an Angel that works for God to keep the Beast 'restrained'.

Thus, in order for the Beast to escape, Apollyon must be 'taken out of the way'. I am reminded of this verse...

Matthew 12:29
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house."


Maybe the King of the Bottomless pit is like the 'Strong Man' restrainer that must be bound and taken out of the way so that the False Prophet can use the key and let the Beast out.

What do you think?
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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What methodology are you using to arrive at the conclusion that the Thessalonians had already received a fraudulent letter purporting to be authored by Paul?
There are two Bible versions below covering (2 Th 2:1-3) that were cherry picked from early Bibles. Each verse clearly communicates what motivated Paul to write it. His Thessalonian flock was deceived by a fraudulent letter, that appeared to be from Paul, stating that they had missed the rapture and were now in Trib. Paul then corrects his flock by explicitly saying the Trib can’t be because the rapture is first.

Additional data: The keyword in the Greek 2 Th 2:3 is “apostasia.” In the Liddell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon, “apostasia” has two main definitions: (1) defection; revolt; and (2) departure/disappearance. Definition #1 is clearly about a falling away. However, definition #2 is clearly about a “physical departure” because, in Greek, “departure” is most closely related to “disappearance.” So, “departure” or “departing” in older Bibles always related to a physical departure, as in the rapture.

In the verse 1 below, Paul raises the topic of the rapture. That sets the context of rapture. Verse 2 acknowledges the fraudulent letter his flock received. Verse 3 corrects his flock and all you doubters of the pre-Trib rapture. The ending words to verse 3 are about what starts the Trib. Those words relate to Rev 6:1-2, as the Trib is started by the opening of the 1st seal, which features the AC (antichrist) as the rider on the white horse.

2 Th 2:1 (Geneva Bible): Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,

2 Th 2:2 (NLT): Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.

2 Th 2:3 (Geneva Bible): Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

Verse 3 corrects his flock: “for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first,” ----- “that day” refers back to verse 2 regarding “the day of the Lord” (which begins with the Trib).
 
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Berean Tim

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2 Thess. 2 is very clear, its the rapture of the church. You converted for nothing. That affects you, you have tunnel vision because of that decision.
Apostasia is used 5 times in the Greek OT, apostasy or political rebellion. Every language in the world translates this as apostasy or rebellion. Further more "apostasia" is the perfect word describing Matt 24:10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
 
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Apostasia is used 5 times in the Greek OT, apostasy or political rebellion. Every language in the world translates this as apostasy or rebellion. Further more "apostasia" is the perfect word describing Matt 24:10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.

@Der Alte would you have any comment on that?
 
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Berean Tim

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There are two Bible versions below covering (2 Th 2:1-3) that were cherry picked from early Bibles. Each verse clearly communicates what motivated Paul to write it. His Thessalonian flock was deceived by a fraudulent letter, that appeared to be from Paul, stating that they had missed the rapture and were now in Trib. Paul then corrects his flock by explicitly saying the Trib can’t be because the rapture is first.

Additional data: The keyword in the Greek 2 Th 2:3 is “apostasia.” In the Liddell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon, “apostasia” has two main definitions: (1) defection; revolt; and (2) departure/disappearance. Definition #1 is clearly about a falling away. However, definition #2 is clearly about a “physical departure” because, in Greek, “departure” is most closely related to “disappearance.” So, “departure” or “departing” in older Bibles always related to a physical departure, as in the rapture.

In the verse 1 below, Paul raises the topic of the rapture. That sets the context of rapture. Verse 2 acknowledges the fraudulent letter his flock received. Verse 3 corrects his flock and all you doubters of the pre-Trib rapture. The ending words to verse 3 are about what starts the Trib. Those words relate to Rev 6:1-2, as the Trib is started by the opening of the 1st seal, which features the AC (antichrist) as the rider on the white horse.

2 Th 2:1 (Geneva Bible): Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,

2 Th 2:2 (NLT): Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.

2 Th 2:3 (Geneva Bible): Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

Verse 3 corrects his flock: “for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first,” ----- “that day” refers back to verse 2 regarding “the day of the Lord” (which begins with the Trib).
Is that you horsepro001 ????
 
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Apostasia is used 5 times in the Greek OT, apostasy or political rebellion. Every language in the world translates this as apostasy or rebellion. Further more "apostasia" is the perfect word describing Matt 24:10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
Nowhere in the chapter is FAITH spoken about. The Rapture would be in VERB FORM, thus we are are speaking about instances where that word us used when people move from one place to the next, it is not comprehensible that a chapter which starts out says (Basically) We beseech you to NOT FEAR via the GATHERING UNTO Christ Jesus. For THAT DAY (DOTL) can not come unto BOTH the Departing [of the Church] SEE Verse 1, AND the Man of Sin (A.C.) comes on the scene.

Its not even a hard study. Its not debatable.
 
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I don't have access to a Greek OT.

Oh, I can get you a link to an online copy of the Septuagint, in Greek, and in English translation, and I believe there is also an interlinear translation.
 
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The first 7 English translations said DEPARTURE not Falling Away, the Latin Vulgate around for 1000 years before the KJV (English Church) seemingly tried to smear the RCC by calling it a Departure from the Faith (falling away) this (DOTL or God's Wrath) can not come until BOTH THESE THINGS HAPEN, 1.) The Church must DEPART (see vs. 1 a Gathering unto Christ is what's being pointed unto) this earth, or our STANDING on this earth. 2.) The Anti-Christ must be on the scene BEFORE the DOTL or God's Wrath falls, and since he makes a 7 year Agreement (Israel joins the E.U., ....mark my words.... ) with Israel, that has to happen before the middle of the week wrath of God falls. So, YES............Both of those things must come to pass before God's Wrath falls so he's telling the Thessalonians to STOP FEARING you are not in the DOTL nor can you be !!!

So, when does the A.C. go forth conquering? After the Church DEPARTS, the Holy Spirit blocks him until we are gone. Its that simple, don't overthink it.
I agree with what you say but I have something to offer. I believe the Archangel Michael is he who restrains and will be taken out of the way at the time of the abomination.
Daniel 12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Michael arises. The time of distress starts.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11 They triumphed over him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Michael throws down Satan to the Earth. Then the 1260 days starts.

It’s Michael!! He’s the restrainer!!
 
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