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The true context of science. It is just a model, get over it.

Justatruthseeker

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There is no evidence to dismiss or accept or do anything else with regarding what time is like in deep space. You have beliefs.

You might ask them about the Planck Length changing during their claimed expansion and how their time magically stays the same despite an increase in the scale of spacetime..... Also how light magically ignores this increase in the amount of space it has to cross and does so in the same amount of time as if their was no extra space being created it had to pass through?????

Of course since they wont have any real scientific answers they will try to dazzle you with Fairie Dust....
 
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Justatruthseeker

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And ridiculing eucharistic miracles - several again on this thread - without even looking at the evidence.

( I have yet to see a theist on this thread ridicule eucharistic miracles or an atheist argue against abiogenesis, so yours is the straw man, although I accept all theists dont believe in eucharistic miracles, and no doubt some atheists prefer unicorns - But what I said is true of this thread!)

The willingness to ridicule WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING at evidence shows it is a belief , not a rational conclusion. And most have ridiculed, none looked at evidence.

What miracles? I've read only science in the Bible, nothing that actually requires a supernatural intervention......
 
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dad

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You clearly don’t understand the concept of hypothetically speaking.
If you want to play the role of the idiot with obfuscated responses that’s fine with me because your avoidance of the issues is a dead giveaway the debate is over.

The literal interpretation of the Bible is of a stationary Earth which was the prevailing view in Christianity for well over 1000 years and still is amongst fundamentalists and is incompatible your fishbowl which caters for a non stationary Earth.
You are either incapable of seeing the dilemma or deliberately avoiding it..
The verses you offered were shown to mean nothing remotely similar to what you claimed.


You had no science and made a classic flop with a bible case.

Ho hum

The terrorist you offered as support that folks all thought the earth didn't move in days of old was a joke. Like he would know what the ancients thought about the stars.

"

Did Bible Writers believe the earth was flat?
No—this false idea is not taught in Scripture!

In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space—the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. By 150 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes had already measured the 25,000-mile circumference of the earth. The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth’s spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. Some people may have thought the earth was flat, but certainly not the great explorers. Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the “four corners” of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun’s rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the “language of appearance,” just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate."

Astronomy and the Bible
 
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dad

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You might ask them about the Planck Length changing during their claimed expansion and how their time magically stays the same despite an increase in the scale of spacetime..... Also how light magically ignores this increase in the amount of space it has to cross and does so in the same amount of time as if their was no extra space being created it had to pass through?????

Of course since they wont have any real scientific answers they will try to dazzle you with Fairie Dust....
I suspect that they have a way internally in their belief set, to explain/explain away your points.
You question the basis for expansion as do I. As for time staying the same, I think their supporters/groupies/religious proponents/science cheer leaders would have a tough time even explaining what time is let alone what it is like out there.
 
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dad

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What miracles? I've read only science in the Bible, nothing that actually requires a supernatural intervention......
Feeding 20,000 people with a few loaves and fishes, and having more leftovers than that when they all ate?
 
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Speedwell

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The verses you offered were shown to mean nothing remotely similar to what you claimed.

You had no science and made a classic flop with a bible case.

Ho hum

The terrorist you offered as support that folks all thought the earth didn't move in days of old was a joke. Like he would know what the ancients thought about the stars.

"

Did Bible Writers believe the earth was flat?
No—this false idea is not taught in Scripture!

In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space—the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. By 150 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes had already measured the 25,000-mile circumference of the earth. The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth’s spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. Some people may have thought the earth was flat, but certainly not the great explorers. Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the “four corners” of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun’s rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the “language of appearance,” just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate."

Astronomy and the Bible
The Bible does not teach either that the Earth is flat or spherical.
 
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dad

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I didn't .. and you know it!
You didn't try? Or you didn't post? Or you didn't address the issue? Or you don't remember? Show us the post where you proved time was the same in the far universe? Ha.
 
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SelfSim

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SelfSim said:
dad said:
... As for time staying the same, I think their supporters/groupies/religious proponents/science cheer leaders would have a tough time even explaining what time is let alone what it is like out there.
I didn't .. and you know it!
You didn't try? Or you didn't post? Or you didn't address the issue? Or you don't remember? Show us the post where you proved time was the same in the far universe? Ha.
Page after page of my explaining how science, (and the philosophical foundations it is based on), view time in this thread, here.

And now you deny or lie about this explanation having ever been delivered?
Shame on you .. shameful behaviour!
You're a disgrace!
 
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dad

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Page after page of my explaining how science, (and the philosophical foundations it is based on), view time in this thread, here.

And now you deny or lie about this explanation having ever been delivered?
Shame on you .. shameful behaviour!
You're a disgrace!
Funny the link you gave leads nowhere, (except to a thread in general). It probably would be better to admit you did not support that time in the far universe was the same as here, rather than pretending and insulting.
 
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sjastro

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The verses you offered were shown to mean nothing remotely similar to what you claimed.

You had no science and made a classic flop with a bible case.

Ho hum
This vacuous statement indicates either your understanding of simple English is limited, or you are engaging in blatant dishonesty as I made it perfectly clear they are not my claims.
It is your claims that are under scrutiny which you are avoiding like the plague to address.

The terrorist you offered as support that folks all thought the earth didn't move in days of old was a joke. Like he would know what the ancients thought about the stars.
This “terrorist” used Joshua 10-12 in his argument; the command was given to stop the Sun and Moon moving, not the Earth which is stationary.
Stop making up nonsense.

Did Bible Writers believe the earth was flat?
No—this false idea is not taught in Scripture!

In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space—the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. By 150 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes had already measured the 25,000-mile circumference of the earth. The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth’s spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. Some people may have thought the earth was flat, but certainly not the great explorers. Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the “four corners” of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun’s rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the “language of appearance,” just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate."

Astronomy and the Bible
The Bible does not touch on scientific subjects full stop.

Now from the “hypothetically speaking” perspective which is hopefully going to sink in………………
How is your cut and paste job relevant in showing the Scriptures support a moving Earth?
The significant issue is what you didn’t cut and paste.
The same author contradicts your fishbowl by using observation rather than the Bible to quote the orbital speed for the solar system with respect to the galaxy and the velocity of our galaxy through space.
Using your tired old argument, how does the author know the observations are correct since it lies outside your fishbowl?
You are another victim of the dreaded foot in mouth disorder of supplying a link that rather supporting your nonsense contradicts it.

Your post confirms your capitulation is complete.
Being a literalist you cannot show one single verse in the Bible where the Earth orbits the Sun making it consistent with your fishbowl.

You have been completely and utterly defeated.
I suggest you change your avatar from undefeated to defeated.:amen:
 
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SelfSim

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Funny the link you gave leads nowhere, (except to a thread in general). It probably would be better to admit you did not support that time in the far universe was the same as here, rather than pretending and insulting.
So now you expect me to lie as well?
Pathetic!
Oh .. and 'insults' are only possible where respect has been earned. You cannot earn respect by continually exhibiting dishonesty.
 
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dad

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This vacuous statement indicates either your understanding of simple English is limited, or you are engaging in blatant dishonesty as I made it perfectly clear they are not my claims.
It is your claims that are under scrutiny which you are avoiding like the plague to address.
I do not believe the ancients thought earth was stationary, regardless of what the terrorist you quoted may have said. The bible does not say that, nor that the earth is flat either. Sorry. No.

This “terrorist” used Joshua 10-12 in his argument; the command was given to stop the Sun and Moon moving, not the Earth which is stationary.
Stop making up nonsense.
Well that proves the terrorist had no real grasp of a lot of Scripture I guess. It does not say the earth does not move. What the bible talks about is a miracle that happened in one little area. It does not say world wide does it? The loaves and fishes miracle was at one place at a certain time also. (since this happened a few times, then obviously a few places and times). People in China in that day did not find loaves and fish! Nor did people in China record, of course that the sun stopped the day Joshua fought the battle in Israel! You cannot use that verse to claim the earth doesn't move.

The Bible does not touch on scientific subjects full stop.
The bible tells us a lot about the stars, and origins, and when things came to exist etc etc etc. Science (origins) is just a religion that departed from God and left Him out purposely of any and all possible scenarios and models etc.
Many aspects of origin sciences are dealt with in the bible. That God created life for example, so we know all evolving happened after this and not as science claims, the other way round! We know earth was here and the stars and sun created after, science preaches the opposite. So God does cover a lot of these things science pretends to cover, but since science claims on the issues are lies and dark religion, naturally the bible is not strictly some science book. It is far above just that.
Now from the “hypothetically speaking” perspective which is hopefully going to sink in………………
How is your cut and paste job relevant in showing the Scriptures support a moving Earth?
If you disagree with the folks you cited and the way the verses you offered were supposed to be interpreted, then how are we to think you have some other position?


The bible does not teach the earth is flat nor that it does not move physically period. You simply need to agree or disagree and be clear.

The significant issue is what you didn’t cut and paste.
The same author contradicts your fishbowl by using observation rather than the Bible to quote the orbital speed for the solar system with respect to the galaxy and the velocity of our galaxy through space.
So who says all this exactly??

Let's look at their claims and the basis for them. Ha.

Being a literalist you cannot show one single verse in the Bible where the Earth orbits the Sun making it consistent with your fishbowl.
No matter who you may be let's see you show verses that say that the sun in the future will not orbit earth! (or that the earth will orbit the sun) We do know that the heavens we know will be no more!

The bible doesn't say there are 365 days in a year either. A bible year from Genesis to Revelation is 360 days! Why does God not switch over to our current fishbowl time? Ha. Apparently this world as it is simply is too transient in nature!! Perhaps the same thing is true of the orbits and movements earth may have in the future.
 
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dad

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So now you expect me to lie as well?
Pathetic!
Oh .. and 'insults' are only possible where respect has been earned. You cannot earn respect by continually exhibiting dishonesty.
So you could not post the link to where you supposed dealt with the issue. Fine. Stay down then.
 
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dad

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And you repeat the lie .. yet again ..
Right, so you claim you posted the link to you addressing the issue of what time is like in the distant universe? The link you posted that I clicked on led to a thread....nor a specific quote...correct?
 
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Mountainmike

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What miracles? I've read only science in the Bible, nothing that actually requires a supernatural intervention......

Are you aware of eucharistic miracles?

Recent with good forensic evidence are Tixtla, Sokolka, Buenos Airies, Legnica - also the oldest one Lanciano.

In these cases
1/ A red substance and liquid developed on a eucharistic host after consecration. (normally after falling on the floor, or discarding)
2/ The red substance was analysed by forensic labs.
3/ identified as heart myocardium, showing signs of trauma and MI
4/ the red fluid identified as human blood
5/ Intermittently intermingled with bread at the edges , so impossible to see how it was faked. Indeed there are no bodies!
6/ White cells detected showing the samples are alive, years after - which should not happen in vitro
7/ In the case of Lanciano, the fact it survived without preservatives after a millenium - still recognisable as flesh is inexplicable in itself
8/ All different forensic labs whose day jobs are criminology

Study them. There are a few books written aboutsome of them appending forensic reports.

Then consider the meaning of "this is my body, this is my blood" - exactly as the early fathers stated, in the generation after apostles.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Are you aware of eucharistic miracles?

I'm aware of the claims, yes.
Are you aware of the rebuttals? You should be, since they have been brought to your attention.

Off course, if you ignore them....
 
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Mountainmike

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I'm aware of the claims, yes.
Are you aware of the rebuttals? You should be, since they have been brought to your attention.

Off course, if you ignore them....
I was answering another,

As far as I am aware, nobody on here has actually looked at the evidence, let alone contested it - when they do I am happy to discuss.

Which is why I pointed out the "evidence gap" demonstrating apriori faith and prejudice is the reason most atheists ridicule eucharistic miracles (despite forensic evidence) but are happy to entertain abiogenesis (most believe in it) despite the lack of evidence or any process, and the massive intellectual leap.
And all your sophistry and blather has failed to even challenge that central issue with other than smoke screen.

It would be a change for you to mention evidence.
 
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