the Trinity

[Fireinfolding]

Heres a few verses

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ~ask me nothing~. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I ~say not~ unto you, that ~I will pray~ the Father for you:


John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came ~out from~ God.

John 20:17 I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater ~than I~.


John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.



John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.


1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.


1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

As He and the Father are one in the same he also wanted us to be one as He and Him were one.


John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 7:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.


I'll wake up in the morning and post more Im beat lol

Night

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[spiersdodgerblue]

The Father Revealed

John 14:8-11

Please read

God Bless!

 

[Fireinfolding]

The Flesh Jesus took on was created. But, as the Son of God before the incarnation, He was Eternally existing.

Jesus is no longer in the "created" flesh of this earth!

1 Corinthians 15:47 (New International Version)​

"The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven."​

Gene, I have no argument or spin, Im just posting scripture. I'll refrain from my own words. Though God does three things, He FORMS He MADE and He CREATED. The word was MADE FLESH which WAS FORMED from the DUST of the ground. CREATED is of the Spirit which gives LIFE.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath ~life~ in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have ~life~ in himself;

When the Son of God returned to Heaven in the ascension, he was transformed into a new type of glorious body. A body of Heaven. Eternal in nature!

1 Corinthians 15:38-40 (New International Version)​

"But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another."​

We are to no longer know Jesus after the flesh...​

Thats right No longer know Him after the flesh, He reveals Himself by the Spirit

​

2 Corinthians 5:16 (New American Standard Bible)

​

"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer." ​

I agree, I know Him no longer after the flesh ​

Trouble can happen when we as believers think outside of the Word and depend upon traditions of men to conclude for us.

Been to church 3 months in my 18 years in the Lord, I promise theres no tradition in me ​

There are many things to yet learn and understand, to be discovered like buried treasure hidden in the Word of God, waiting for the right time to be found.

Hes that awesome treasure in this earthen vessel its in Him in who all the treasure of wisdom and knowledge are hid ​

1 Corinthians 15:47 (New International Version)

​

"The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven."​

Grace and peace, GeneZ​

1Cr 15:45 The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



Peace to you

Fireinfolding

 

[Fireinfolding]

The Father Revealed

John 14:8-11

Please read

God Bless!

Very familiar with that verse

Luke 10:12 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.


Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature


Heb 3:1 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


Now I really gotta go to bed

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[GenemZ]

Gene, I have no argument or spin, Im just posting scripture.

Keep it in context, sir!

Otherwise, out of context quoting will mislead others more frequently than not.

I'll refrain from my own words. Though God does three things, He FORMS He MADE and He CREATED. The word was MADE FLESH which WAS FORMED from the DUST of the ground. CREATED is of the Spirit which gives LIFE.

Again? Out of context words , even though accurately spelled? Often times means nothing in itself as far as getting the full picture. Remember the tale of the blind men and the elephant?

Who needs proper interpretation from one having the gift to do so, if simply quoting out of context passages is the means to gaining truth?

Philippians 1:9 (New International Version)

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."
​

Insight never comes by simply quoting words out of context like you have been doing. We are to gain insight into God's Word.

Not simply be, Word - Repeater, machines..

Acts 8:30-31 (New International Version)

"Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?"



So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him."
​

John 5:26 For as the Father hath ~life~ in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have ~life~ in himself;

Jesus was saying he has the same life as the Father. That makes him to be God! Same life! Not a different life! Same.

Been to church 3 months in my 18 years in the Lord, I promise theres no tradition in me

No traditions of men? Yes... And, that guarantees you no good teaching, as well.

Not all churches are stuck in traditions of men. Sadly, many are. There are some (seek and ye shall find) that are teaching God's Word from the gift granted by God. The majority of churches will be what you have been avoiding (which I avoid, too). But not all. Even Rembrandt needed a mentor(s) in his training. Later on after he matured, he was self sustaining.
​

Hes that awesome treasure in this earthen vessel its in Him in who all the treasure of wisdom and knowledge are hid

Hid. And, will remain hidden unless you can find a qualified pastor to show you what you can not see on your own. Believe it or not. There are a few good men out there.

Ephesians 4:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)

"And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ."
​

By virtue of what you have been expressing in your posts, you reveal that you have much to be exposed to. Exposed to, that you can not get by simply reading your Bible for yourself. What you have been doing is like getting a book to teach yourself how to read.

That's how ironic your position is at this time.

Quoting passages out of context, misleads. The full context of all of God's Word places truth on a pedestal.

Grace and peace, GeneZ
​

 

[BigNorsk]

The bible does teach that Jesus is God.

Let's look at one such place.

Isa 40:3 NET.
(3) A voice cries out,
"In the wilderness clear a way for the LORD;
construct in the desert a road for our God.

Now we should be clear here, "LORD" represents "YHWH" the personal name of God.

This verse is so important, it is referenced in all four Gospels. See Mat 3:3; Mark 1:3; Luke 3:4; John 1:23.

Now who is YHWH who is the one that John the Baptist is preparing the way for? Jesus, that's who. So Jesus=YHWH. The Gospel of John really spells this out.

Joh 1:22-31 NET.
(22) Then they said to him, "Who are you? Tell us so that we can give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?"
(23) John said, "I am the voice of one shouting in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for the Lord,' as Isaiah the prophet said."
(24) (Now they had been sent from the Pharisees. )
(25) So they asked John, "Why then are you baptizing if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
(26) John answered them, "I baptize with water. Among you stands one whom you do not recognize,
(27) who is coming after me. I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandal!"
(28) These things happened in Bethany across the Jordan River where John was baptizing.
(29) On the next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
(30) This is the one about whom I said, 'After me comes a man who is greater than I am, because he existed before me.'
(31) I did not recognize him, but I came baptizing with water so that he could be revealed to Israel."

See John prepared the way for Jesus, YHWH.

Marv

 

[Fireinfolding]

Keep it in context, sir!

Not a sir, Mister

Otherwise, out of context quoting will mislead others more frequently than not.

Misleading to where? Which verses are misleading?

Again? Out of context words , even though accurately spelled? Often times means nothing in itself as far as getting the full picture. Remember the tale of the blind men and the elephant?

Who needs proper interpretation from one having the gift to do so, if simply quoting out of context passages is the means to gaining truth?

Which are out of context as they pertain to the Father and Son?

Philippians 1:9 (New International Version)

​

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight." ​

Insight never comes by simply quoting words out of context like you have been doing. We are to gain insight into God's Word.

The context is the Father and the Son, I fail to find where (in that context) Im out of context.

Not simply be, Word - Repeater, machines..

You mean using the words "Father and Son" in their own context? I thought that was the context Should I have used Cain and the Father?

Acts 8:30-31 (New International Version)

​

"Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked. ​

"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" ​

So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him." ​

He needed to know about Jesus Christ in context ​

Jesus was saying he has the same life as the Father. That makes him to be God! Same life! Not a different life! Same.

Who said it was a DIFFERENT LIFE? Not me that would be your own presumption.

No traditions of men? Yes... And, that guarantees you no good teaching, as well.

Its sorta a no win situation, an assumption on one, then "oops" thats not true, lets try a hangman in another direction

Not all churches are stuck in traditions of men. Sadly, many are. There are some (seek and ye shall find) that are teaching God's Word from the gift granted by God. The majority of churches will be what you have been avoiding (which I avoid, too). But not all. Even Rembrandt needed a mentor(s) in his training. Later on after he matured, he was self sustaining.

​

Its pretty typical where two people might not agree that sometimes one (another might not agree with) needs the teacher. I accept wherever anyones at by way of seeing in part, its not an issue with me (personally).​

Hid. And, will remain hidden unless you can find a qualified pastor to show you what you can not see on your own. Believe it or not. There are a few good men out there.

Thanks, I dont know what you think I cant see, but I'll trust in the power of God over the wisdom of men anyday.

Mat 16:16 Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

The Father revealed that to Him. I believe Him

Ephesians 4:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)

​

"And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, ​

for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ." ​

Amen, to BUILD UP the BODY

Ephes 4:16 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
​

By virtue of what you have been expressing in your posts, you reveal that you have much to be exposed to.

​

I thank you for the expression of your evaluation of me, I'll leave that in the hands of God who knows the truth of what I say. Though, I am a tad curious, which verse of scripture gave you that idea.​

Exposed to, that you can not get by simply reading your Bible for yourself. What you have been doing is like getting a book to teach yourself how to read.

​

Yep, learned to read better by them and do love the His words ​

That's how ironic your position is at this time.

​

Which position might that be?​

Quoting passages out of context, misleads. The full context of all of God's Word places truth on a pedestal.

​

Which passage is out of the context as they pertain to the Father and Son's relationship?​

Fireinfolding​

​

 

[skywatching]

Hid. And, will remain hidden unless you can find a qualified pastor to show you what you can not see on your own. Believe it or not. There are a few good men out there.

By virtue of what you have been expressing in your posts, you reveal that you have much to be exposed to. Exposed to, that you can not get by simply reading your Bible for yourself. What you have been doing is like getting a book to teach yourself how to read. ​

That's how ironic your position is at this time. ​

Quoting passages out of context, misleads. The full context of all of God's Word places truth on a pedestal. ​

Grace and peace, GeneZ​

​

I will argue that you are wrong on the first part. I know pastors and teachers that went through seminary only to be taught the way to teach yet not fully know the Bible when they graduate. THIS IS HORRIBLY WRONG! Also, I will never put my faith in just a human to teach me God's Word. Jesus was a teacher on earth and he even specifies that he is of better use in heaven than on earth with his disciples because he can teach and minister to more masses than just humanly possible. JESUS is to be our TEACHER...God is to interpret His Word to us as WE GROW in Spirit. And if ya ain't got the Spirit, you will always think it is a bunch of confusing passages that means nothing to your everyday life!​

The second part (not pointing to whom you were saying this to) I fully agree because many people are passing down acceptance of information and misquoting to justify that false teaching from generations ago. If you really sit back and look at MANY of the traditions, rituals, and doctrines, you will find that none of them came from Jesus or even the disciples teachings on what it takes to be a TRUE Christian.​

HOWEVER, to say to someone that they can not read the Bible for themselves is a travesty to Christianity and precisely the reason MANY people don't and wind up in hell anyway. The relationship between God and person is PERSONAL and YES ANYONE can read for themselves, but it takes God's Spirit and a humbled heart to understand and learn from it​

*stepping of soap box now*​

 

[skywatching]

Now we should be clear here, "LORD" represents "YHWH" the personal name of God.

Marv

ummm, so you are telling us that Lord means YHWH???
not true in 100% of context because many people were called 'Lord" in the Bible....are you suggesting that the angels were also 'GOD' and other humans were called by that also...

i think you have been mislead to think that it is the correct translation of words. it shows me the perfect example of people deciding to put there own spin on words as 'deeper meaning'

We are One with God just as Jesus is One with God...but we are NOT God...wake up people, this isn't rocket science.

 

[BigNorsk]

I didn't say that Lord always means God. What the LORD in Isaiah means though is indeed YHWH. That's the Hebrew being translated. The King James translators started that tradition that is still followed by many translations that when they translated the tentragramation, YHWH, they did it as LORD in all captitals letters.

You will see places where Lord is not all in capitals and then it is a translation of other words. But when in caps is only a translation of YHWH the personal name of God.

And so we see the verse in Isaiah uses the personal name of God, YHWH, and that is translated "LORD". In the New Testament in the verses that quote that verse, the Greek word is "Kurios" which is translated "Lord". If however, you simply put the two together, you see that the prophecy was that there would be a voice crying in the wilderness, Prepare the way of YHWH. And when we see the prophecy fulfilled, it is John the Baptist who is the voice in the wilderness and Jesus who is YHWH.

YHWH is never used for anyone other than God almighty. Hence Jesus is God almighty.

Hope you understand now, sorry I didn't make it clear enough at first.

Marv

 

[BigNorsk]

Jesus is also called God elsewhere.

Joh 1:1 NET.
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.

Rom 9:5 NET.
(5) To them belong the patriarchs, and from them, by human descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen.

Depending on manuscript family.

Joh 1:18 NET.
(18) No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

1Ti 3:16 KJV
(16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Are some of the others.

Marv

 

[Tonks]

Why do people insist that the Trinity is a true doctrine?

Matthew 3;
16 And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. 17 And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

[StevenL]

You don't have to believe in the man-made trinity philosophy to receive Life. There are some truths in the trinity theory but some falsehoods also. Plenty of scripture shows the three manifestations of God. Some show that Yeshus is the Father. Some show that the "Lord (Yeshua/Jesus) IS the Spirit.." The Old Testament YHVH, Who followed them in the wilderness, was said by Paul to be The Christ. God is NOT three people. No one can explain God and it's ridiculous to put Him in a trinity box and then persecute others for not accepting the box.

But I can live with a 'trinity' .....or not. One human God-theory is as good (or bad) as another.

 

[skywatching]

You don't have to believe in the man-made trinity philosophy to receive Life. There are some truths in the trinity theory but some falsehoods also. Plenty of scripture shows the three manifestations of God. Some show that Yeshus is the Father. Some show that the "Lord (Yeshua/Jesus) IS the Spirit.." The Old Testament YHVH, Who followed them in the wilderness, was said by Paul to be The Christ. God is NOT three people. No one can explain God and it's ridiculous to put Him in a trinity box and then persecute others for not accepting the box.

But I can live with a 'trinity' .....or not. One human God-theory is as good (or bad) as another.

I think you relate more to what I am sensing. I have had several conversations with my mentor (Yes, I listen to him but I dont blindly follow everything he says *hugsss my friend....hehe*) and have had God open my Bible to read many places that have been quoted and some not quoted.

Whether or not I believe God is Jesus and vice versa really is a matter of not only debate, It signifies that our human minds just can not fully explain or comprehend these instances in true context...and if they were a matter of life and death, we believe that Jesus would have taken the time to explain further.

He even mentions that we can't comprehend things of heaven if we can't understand the things of earth (nicodemus was spoken to in this reference, which shows that while a man can believe in the Messiah, he still regarded his 'religion' more...at least until Jesus' death) and he also says that he did not have enough time to fully explain things to fill in all the blanks and questions of his followers.

I think my biggest point here is to not blindly hindge our beliefs and spiritual relationship on it. I think it is good to respect the scriptures as they are translated but not focus so much on a detail that really may not be a 'revelation' and more on the fundamental truth of Jesus and how we are to live for God's acceptance.

and in reality, if I am wrong, I feel that God will deal with me in a manner to expose it to me HIS WAY and not someone on earth condemning me for it.

Thanks for all the posts! I appreciate that, for the most part, this was a mature discussion and little bickering which is more what many places in this board should be like.

 

[Oblio]

Icxn, That is a poetic reference by John..he also says Jesus is the Light but I dont think he meant he was going to be the world's light bulb.

...and the Word was God ...

is not poetic, it is a statement of fact, backed up by the entirety of the Gospels. Jesus clearly shows He is God to unbelievers when he heals the paralytic to show that He also has the power to forgive sins, which only God can do.

 

[skywatching]

umm, no God gave Jesus the power in which to prove that he indeed was the Son of God. It states that he was given authority and power over earth. He didn't already have it *as God does*. The Word was God's Truth and through Jesus' human existance he became the voice and example of God's Word. The Living Word of God. but this discussion really will go nowhere since we believe differently and I am not here to change your mind. I am here to determine just how close to God and Jesus' teachings the mass majority of 'professing Christians' are. I am not hear to prove or beat anyone into believing as I do either. If you *meaning anyone* are REALLY of Spirit with God, he will reveal His truth. My thoughts will be changed by God if they are indeed wrong because I do not hold ANY doctrine or ritual accountable to my salvation. My repentant heart to changing for God's ways and believing Jesus took my punishment and was the example to live by THAT is what saves me.

 

[Shubunkin]

umm, no God gave Jesus the power in which to prove that he indeed was the Son of God. It states that he was given authority and power over earth. He didn't already have it *as God does*. The Word was God's Truth and through Jesus' human existance he became the voice and example of God's Word.

I fail to see where the Bible says this!

How about this.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[E.C.]

It has been believed that Jesus Christ is God from the beginning.

The doctrine of the Trinity, something believed since the beginning, only had to be "officialized" due to the Arian heresy. Arius was a man who claimed that Christ was not the Son of God, but instead a created creature. Fights, arguments and debates ensued.

In the end, the Trinity doctrine was formulated. The debate was solved when people asked "What do we believe? What have we believed?" and they realized that Arius' thought did not jive because Arius said that Christ was a created creature yet it had been believed for three centuries that Christ was the Son of God. Christ is God.

 

[skywatching]

um, ok ur right i am wrong...you can stop now.
try reading the prophets for content against everything Jesus said...unless u do not have the discernment of Spirit, you'll find it all there..and btw, it was all paraphrazed and condensed in what i said

 

[E.C.]

um, ok ur right i am wrong...you can stop now.
try reading the prophets for content against everything Jesus said...unless u do not have the discernment of Spirit, you'll find it all there..and btw, it was all paraphrazed and condensed in what i said

A little confused here... what?