Ok, I know what the Trinity is, but how exactly does it work? How can I explain it to someone who does not believe in the Trinity. Some people I know are confused about the trinity. They asked me, How can Jesus be his own Father? Can you please help me with this?
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The Trinity?
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PETE_
Count as lost, every moment not spent loving God
The church fathers and mothers had to deal with these facts: God is one; Jesus is God; Jesus and the Father are not the same (and then that the Holy Spirit is also God and he is not the same as either the Father or the Son). The way that they put these truths together was through the doctrine of the Trinity. The actual word appears to have been coined about a.d. 200 by Tertullian, but it would take more than another 150 years to fully define the doctrine. This explanation depended on the ability of Greek philosophy to separate being (substance) from person. Thus they argued that there were three persons and yet only one being, one substance. The closest analogy which we might find in human existence would be instances of true multiple personality, except that because they all have to use the same limited human body only one personality can appear to the world at any given time.
One does not need to hold the explanation with its Greek philosophical assumptions to hold the truth of Scripture, although we know of no better explanation. The fact is that the Scripture asserts that God is one, Jesus is God, and that Jesus and the Father are separate conscious centers. The Father can send the Son and the two of them can dialogue together. At its core this teaching is a mystery, so all human explanations (including the doctrine of the Trinity) are only more or less crude human attempts to come to terms with a divine reality that is beyond us. The doctrine points to a transcendent God who could yet simultaneously become a human being and then after the resurrection also indwell other human beings (that is, the Holy Spirit).
He is a God great enough to rule the universe, caring enough to live a fully human life and intimate enough to live in each believer.
I like that part.
This is the reality that the doctrine points to. This is the truth that John teaches. Try as we like, we will never understand this divine depth, yet we can still enjoy the reality of God being with us that the doctrine points to.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=28281770#_ftn1http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=28281770#_ftnref1Kaiser, W. C. 1997, c1996. Hard sayings of the Bible. InterVarsity: Downers Grove, IlOne does not need to hold the explanation with its Greek philosophical assumptions to hold the truth of Scripture, although we know of no better explanation. The fact is that the Scripture asserts that God is one, Jesus is God, and that Jesus and the Father are separate conscious centers. The Father can send the Son and the two of them can dialogue together. At its core this teaching is a mystery, so all human explanations (including the doctrine of the Trinity) are only more or less crude human attempts to come to terms with a divine reality that is beyond us. The doctrine points to a transcendent God who could yet simultaneously become a human being and then after the resurrection also indwell other human beings (that is, the Holy Spirit).
He is a God great enough to rule the universe, caring enough to live a fully human life and intimate enough to live in each believer.
I like that part.
This is the reality that the doctrine points to. This is the truth that John teaches. Try as we like, we will never understand this divine depth, yet we can still enjoy the reality of God being with us that the doctrine points to.
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Atlantians
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Explain it like this:
God exists as a single being.
Within his being He exists as three individual persons.
So God is one What(being) and three Whos (persons).
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christian73
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TwinCrier
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I don't try to explain it because I don't understand it. I also don't understand how some animals can swallow another animal whole and alive for food. Just cannot comprehend it. God is not like anything on Earth, so there is nothing to draw a parallel to.
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Razorbuck
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Very true. Scripture affirms the truth of this doctrine, though it is beyond the comprehension of beings bound to four dimensions of understanding.
Sometimes I will use the illustration (with the qualifying statement that it is a simplistic one of a doctrine that is beyond human understanding) of my son experiencing me as Razorbuck the father, my dad experiencing me as Razorbuck the son, and them experiencing me as Razorbuck the teacher/youth pastor/friend, etc.
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Andyman_1970
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I would argue that the mystery in how God manifests Himself in various ways cannot be explained, if it can be explained or understood then it's not a mystery. The mystery of it is the truth.
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RichardT
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First of all, the son is not the father.
The son is God
The father is God
The Holy Spirit is God
The son is not the Father
The Father is not the Holy Spirt
The HolySpirit is not the son
It's 3 persons in one God, something that might confusing though is the word "persons", people get confused because they think that for someone to be different person they would have to be a different being entirely, but this is false.
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I know this may not help much, but look at it this way:
- Instead of 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 --- say 1 x 1 x 1 = 1
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HypoTypoSis
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I don't know that anyone can effectively answer your question. I will, however, give you a few ramble thoughts to ruminatingly masticate on.
The term "God" is not a proper name. It is a "title of office". That office is held by three. In the Hebrew, plural, unlike English, is three (not two) or more.
At creation the very power that emanated from the Godhead that brought everything into creation was Jesus. As the old Negro spiritual attests, "He's got the whole world in His hands" for He, indeed, is the very "glue" that holds the whole of creation together. When the time comes He withdraws that "glue" the whole of creation will fall apart into one big lake of fire; iow, all hell will break loose.
A corporation has officers, often referred to as ("the board" of) directors. Likewise, the Godhead (the corporation) has directors.
Let's not confuse God's breath (or, spirit) of life with The Holy Spirit. God's breath of life has been passed down from Adam and all the original forms of life (animals, fish, fowl) to the present through/from their forebears. The Holy Spirit can only "possess", i.e. indwell within a believer. The operations of the two are separately distinct.
Since creation God's breath of life, which was instilled in Adam and all the various forms of life, animals, fish, fowl, etc. Since then that breath of life has been passed down from father to son to the present. In the same way that 'power' was passed down so does the power that emanates from the Father and represents Him is the Son, Jesus Christ.
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If the people you are talking with that do not believe the Trinity are of the JW variety of the Adventist persuasion the best thing you can do for your own health, well-being and sanity is not walk but run for the nearest door and lock it! Persuing the conversation will in no wise change their minds and you will never get them out the door. With them it is simply a uselessly frustrating fruitless war of words.
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."-Anon
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