The Trinity

[GraceSeeker]

“My God” who is He?​

To whom was Jesus calling to at:-

Matthew 27:46
“About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: "E´li, E´li, la´ma sa·bach·tha´ni?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"”


Which is literally rendered "this is the God of me, God of me."-'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interlinear Translated by Alfred Marshall*

Who is Jesus referring to at:-

What makes you think that Jesus was calling to anyone? Are you as misinformed as those who stood around the cross thinking he might have been calling to Elijah? Don't you recognize when someone has begun to quote Psalm 22?

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

“My God” who is He?​

To whom was Jesus calling to at:-

Matthew 27:46
“About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: "E´li, E´li, la´ma sa·bach·tha´ni?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"”


Which is literally rendered "this is the God of me, God of me."-'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interlinear Translated by Alfred Marshall*

Who is Jesus referring to at:-

John 20:17
“Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father (Literal Gk. “Father of me”^) and YOUR Father and to my God (Literal Gk. “God of me”^) and YOUR God.’”
^'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interlinear Translated by Alfred Marshall

“my poss[essive]. pron[oun]. (attrib.) 1 of or belonging to me. 2 affectionate, patronizing, etc. form of address (my dear boy). 3 in expressions of surprise (my God!; oh my!). 4 colloq. indicating a close relative etc. of the speaker (my Johnny's ill again). my Lady (or Lord) form of address to certain titled persons. [from *mine1] .”-Oxford Dictionary

“god n[oun]. 1 a (in many religions) superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature, human fortunes, etc. b image, idol, etc., symbolizing a god. 2 (God) (in Christian and other monotheistic religions) creator and ruler of the universe. 3 adored or greatly admired person. … .”-Oxford Dictionary

Jesus must have been calling to the Almighty (the Father, his God, see John 20:17, “my God”, (Lit. Gk. "God of me" 'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interliner Translated by Alfred Marshall) quoting from Ps 22:1 where King David was, showing that God is somone other than himself. No, Jesus cannot be Almighty God if he plainly says in the above texts that he himself has a God!


We can also add to the above, the following words, where Jesus is speaking from an exulted heavenly postion:-

Revelation 3:12-13
"‘The one that conquers—I* will make him a pillar in the temple of my God**, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I* will write upon him the name*** of my God** and the name of the city of my God**, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God**, and that new name of mine. Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’”

*Jesus Christ
**Which in litrealy rendered "the God of me."-'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' With Interliner Translated by Alfred Marshall
***Jehovah

So we can ask again, who is Jesus talking about, as it cannot be himself?

The God of Jesus, as at Micah 5:2-4
“And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth--to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity. 3 Therefore he doth give them out till the time She who bringeth forth hath brought forth, And the remnant of his brethren return to the sons of Israel. 4 And he hath stood and delighted in the strength of Jehovah, In the excellency of the name of Jehovah his God, And they have remained, For now he is great unto the ends of earth.”-‘Young’s Literal Translation’

Psalm 89:26-29​

26 He himself [Jesus] calls out to me [Jehovah], ‘You are my Father, My God and the Rock of my [Jesus’] salvation.’
27 Also, I myself [Jehovah] shall place him [Jesus] as firstborn, The most high of the kings of the earth.
28 To time indefinite I [Jehovah] shall preserve my loving-kindness toward him [Jesus], And my [Jehovah’s] covenant will be faithful to him [Jesus].
29 And I shall certainly set up his [Jesus’] seed forever And his [Jesus’] throne as the days of heaven.

Jesus is the greater King David!


So if Jesus has a God how can he be God?

This is the category of false logic called a "false dilemma" . . . sorry.

 

[barryrob]

This is the category of false logic called a "false dilemma" . . . sorry.

That depends on if you believe what the Bible says or not?

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

That depends on if you believe what the Bible says or not?

No . . . it is common logic. You are setting up a needless false dichotomy.

If there is one God . . . and Jesus calls the Father God . . . and Jesus is not the Father . . . then Jesus is not God . . .

That is the false dilemma you are setting up . . . not only is it a false dichotomy and a errant syllogism . . . it is BAD hermeneutics and faulty exegesis.

Because, while Jesus calls the Father mou theos . . . THOMAS calls JESUS MOU THEOS. So the identity of "My God" is the Godhead members themselves. But you would most certainly contest this . . . being that you espouse the modern day repackaging of the Arian heresy of Dynamic Monarchianism . . . commonly known today as JW theology.

 

[GraceSeeker]

To whom was Jesus calling to at:-

Matthew 27:46

Who is Jesus referring to at:-

John 20:17


So if Jesus has a God how can he be God?

To understand your answer, you must first be able to answer these questions:

To whom is God speaking in this verse:

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

To whom is John speaking in this verse:

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. (John 20:28)

Who are the disciples worshipping in this verse:

And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (Matthew 28:17)

Who is the Word made flesh that John is bearing witness to in these verses:

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " (John 1:14 & 15)

Who is he that is the Word of God in this set of verses:

11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
(Revelation 19:11-16)

And what does John say is true with regard to the identification of the Word in these verse:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God**. (John 1:1)

**Note--to translate, as some erroneously want do, this as "a God" is an incorrect rendering of the Greek.

Who is the God who is at the Father's side in this verse:

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. (John 1:18)

Who is the one who delivers the message of Revelation to John in these verses:

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. (Revelation 1:17 & 18)

(see also)"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. (Revelation 2:8)

And who is it that is coming soon in this verse:

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation 22:20)

And thus, who is it that is both coming soon AND identified as "the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End" in these verses:

"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. (Revelation 22:12 & 13)

And who therefore is speaking making this pronouncement in this verse:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)

Once you have answered these questions I think you will have the answer to yours.


He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

 

[Terral]

Hi Barry and Mathetes:

This is the category of false logic called a "false dilemma" . . . sorry.

Barry, you can show these folks the differences between "God" and His Only Begotten Son (my recent post) over and over again until the cows come home, but MANY will continue believing "Jesus is God!!!" (He is the "Son of God") no matter what anyone says or does. You and I know for certain that Jesus Christ is Lord 'and' that God raised Him from the dead (Rom 10:9) on the third day (1Cor 15:31-4). Right? We know that God sent His Only Begotten Son into the world to save sinners (John 3:16-18). Right? Of course. However, those blinded by their own idolatry will never know the difference between God 'and' His Only Begotten Son, because that is the price of purchasing false doctrine from another. Think about this very carefully and perhaps Barry can state his "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (my thread) case and rest knowing 'he' has done everything possible to show everyone here the difference:

Our profession for salvation today is that Jesus is Lord 'and' God raised Him from the dead. Right? Scripture says,

"But what does it say? "The Word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that IF [huge qualifer] you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, 'and' [this is the important part] believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, 'you' will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." Romans 10:8-10.

Nobody can 'preach' our gospel that Jesus is Lord 'and' that God raised Him from the dead, IF "Jesus is God!!!". These blinded souls (2Cor 4:3-4) run around proclaiming the "Son of the Living God" (Matt. 16:15-17) is GOD!!!, because that is what the folks blinded by the 'deluding influence' do! We have MANY 'servants of righteousness' serving their 'angel of light' (2Cor 11:14-15) running around this place with inflated reputations, because "MANY" are on the road to destruction and very 'few' are being saved.

"And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for MANY, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.' Luke 13:23-25.

Since very 'few' are being saved and the 'MANY' are on the wide paved road to destruction, then you are having an uphill battle convincing the MANY of anything. :0) The "Jesus is God!!!" idolaters outnumber the 'few' on this Board and most of the 'powers-that-be' here are seated in the MANY category. That means Barry is like a little baby lamb among MANY wolves who do NOT even know the difference between "God" and His Son. 1John 5:9-13. You are witnessing the blindness of those led astray by their own adherence to Denominationalism (Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy and Protestantism) dominating this Board, which finds members like us in the vast minority as evidenced by our meager Reps. We will wait to be rewarded by the Son of God Himself (2Cor 5:10), when the precious stones of the MANY here are handed over to us. :0)

In Christ Jesus the Son of God,

Terral

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Hi Barry and Mathetes:



Barry, you can show these folks the differences between "God" and His Only Begotten Son (my recent post) over and over again until the cows come home, but MANY will continue believing "Jesus is God!!!" (He is the "Son of God") no matter what anyone says or does. You and I know for certain that Jesus Christ is Lord 'and' that God raised Him from the dead (Rom 10:9) on the third day (1Cor 15:31-4). Right? We know that God sent His Only Begotten Son into the world to save sinners (John 3:16-18). Right? Of course. However, those blinded by their own idolatry will never know the difference between God 'and' His Only Begotten Son, because that is the price of purchasing false doctrine from another. Think about this very carefully and perhaps Barry can state his "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (my thread) case and rest knowing 'he' has done everything possible to show everyone here the difference:

Our profession for salvation today is that Jesus is Lord 'and' God raised Him from the dead. Right? Scripture says,

Nobody can 'preach' our gospel that Jesus is Lord 'and' that God raised Him from the dead, IF "Jesus is God!!!". These blinded souls (2Cor 4:3-4) run around proclaiming the "Son of the Living God" (Matt. 16:15-17) is GOD!!!, because that is what the folks blinded by the 'deluding influence' do! We have MANY 'servants of righteousness' serving their 'angel of light' (2Cor 11:14-15) running around this place with inflated reputations, because "MANY" are on the road to destruction and very 'few' are being saved.

Since very 'few' are being saved and the 'MANY' are on the wide paved road to destruction, then you are having an uphill battle convincing the MANY of anything. :0) The "Jesus is God!!!" idolaters outnumber the 'few' on this Board and most of the 'powers-that-be' here are seated in the MANY category. That means Barry is like a little baby lamb among MANY wolves who do NOT even know the difference between "God" and His Son. 1John 5:9-13. You are witnessing the blindness of those led astray by their own adherence to Denominationalism (Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy and Protestantism) dominating this Board, which finds members like us in the vast minority as evidenced by our meager Reps. We will wait to be rewarded by the Son of God Himself (2Cor 5:10), when the precious stones of the MANY here are handed over to us. :0)

In Christ Jesus the Son of God,

Terral

You still have not grown . . . so this will be my only response to you.

Thomas calls Jesus God.

Jesus claims the divine name.

Paul calls Jesus God (for the Father is NEVER said to have a glorious appearing).

God the Father calls Jesus God.

Jesus says He and the Father are ONE.

Jesus claims divine perogatives.

Things spoken of YHWH in the OT are quoted as refering to Christ in the NT.

Isaiah calls Jesus God.

The list goes on . . .

 

[Terral]

Hi Mathetes:

You still have not grown . . . so this will be my only response to you.

Thomas calls Jesus God.

In other words, I have not grown in your “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”) idolatry ‘and’ never will. :0) “This” is not a reply to anything presented in my “Jesus Christ is the Son of God” (my thread) testimony on this or any thread . . . Doubting Thomas is giving glory TO GOD for raising His “Son of God” from the dead! This is perhaps the most commonly misused verse of Scripture taken completely out of context to be used by “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”) idolaters who do NOT even know the difference between “God” and His Only Begotten Son. The Gospel writer himself uses this Doubting Thomas account to prove beyond all doubt that Jesus Christ is the “Son of God,” which is exactly what he says ‘and’ exactly what Paul teaches, saying,

“Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these HAVE BEEN written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the SON OF GOD [just like John 1:34, Matt 16:15-16, Jn 10:36, Rev 2:18]; and that believing you may have life in His name.” John 20:30-31.

“Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son**, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the SON OF GOD** with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord . . .”. Romans 1:1-4.

Both of these Bible authors are telling the same truth that God raising His Son from the dead (Rom. 10:9) on the third day (1Cor 15:3-4) testifies to declaration that Jesus Christ is most certainly the “SON OF GOD,” which directly contradicts Mathetes’ distorted conclusions above. The fact is that we have MANY people running around this Board who do NOT know the difference between God ‘and’ His Son**!!!! Go back up to Post #87 to realize that Mathetes refuses to even cite one reference to Scripture, OR to offer one line of ‘rightly divided’ (2Tim. 2:15) commentary at all. He simply asserts that “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”) and that is supposed to be good enough for these readers, because ‘he’ was deceived by someone else the very same way. :0) This is the kind of nonsense we get from these people:

Jesus claims the divine name.

Jesus what?? John the Baptist says that he "has seen" and Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and says John spoke “the truth” (John 5:31-33) about His True Identity! However, the Gospel writer says "No one has seen God!!! at any time" . . . John 1:18. Mathetes has PLENTY of explaining to do. :0) Jesus Christ Himself professes to be the “Son of God” (John 10:36, Rev 2:18), but Mathetes refuses to believe even the Son of God! Where is Mathetes’ Scriptural evidence that Christ claims to be anyone other than the “Son of God” (Jn 10:36, Rev 2:18)??? Good luck!

Paul calls Jesus God (for the Father is NEVER said to have a glorious appearing).

No sir. Paul never does any such thing! Mathetes runs around shouting “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”) and sending us pathetic little posts using no Scripture at all to support ‘his’ delusions supported by misinterpretations from Doubting Thomas (of all people). Paul says,

“For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son**, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you . . .”. Romans 1:9.

“For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son**, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His** life.” Romans 5:10.

“For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son** in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh . . .”. Romans 8:3.

“For the Son of God**, Christ Jesus, who was preached among you by us--by me and Silvanus and Timothy--was not yes and no, but is yes in Him**.” 2Corinthians 1:19.

"I have been crucified with Christ**; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ** lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God**, who loved me and gave Himself** up for me.” Galatians 2:20.

I can quote Paul all day long and he still teaches Jesus Christ as the “Son of God” everywhere AND that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9) as a professing of faith for SALVATION. Anyone proclaiming “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”) does NOT even know the difference between God ‘and’ His Son!!!! This is where Mathetes’ error takes the proverbial cake!

God the Father calls Jesus God.

What? I thought you were here to prove “Jesus IS GOD!!!” (He is the “Son of God”). :0) If Mathetes has enough wits about him to see that “God” calls “His Son” a name, then why can’t he see that the “One God” is “God!!!” and Christ Jesus** is the “Son of God**” from the same cotton picking verses??? Here are the most famous verses of the entire Bible spoken by Jesus Christ Himself. God ‘and’ His Son**:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only Begotten Son**, that whoever believes in Him** shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send The Son** into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him**. He who believes in Him** is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in 'the name' of the Only Begotten Son of God**.” John 3:16-18.

Jesus Christ Himself is speaking and saying that “God” sent Him into the world to save sinners, but Mathetes (and MANY others) simply do NOT know the difference. This is common among people accepting ‘false doctrine’ from others, until ‘they too’ cannot see the difference between God ‘and’ His Son**!!! Let’s try one more time for the sake of the unbiased third party reader (Mathetes will NEVER see the difference):

"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the Only True God, ‘and’ Jesus Christ** whom You have sent. I** glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me** to do.” John 17:3-4.

“For there is one God, and one Mediator** also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus** . . .” 1Timothy 2:5.

If “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the ‘Son of God’), then who is the “Only True God” He** is praying to above in John 17? If “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”), then just who is the “one God” talked about in 1Timothy 2:5 above ‘with’ Christ Jesus being the “one Mediator” of the same verse?? :0) Someone is obviously delusional beyond our combined abilities to fathom, but that accounts for a MANY around here!!!

Jesus says He and the Father are ONE.

Yes, in John 10:30 and as shown in this diagram (under red arrow), but He also represents Himself as the “Son of God” in the same passage!

"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him**, whom the Father [Jn 17:3 above = “My God” of Jn 20:17] sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? John 10:35-36.

Mathetes is quick to acknowledge that “I and the Father are One,” (here again golden 'and' red together) but then he completely dismisses Christ’s own testimony that “I am the Son of God” of the same passage. :0) The ‘deluding influence’ of 2Thes 2:11 is very powerful indeed . . .

Jesus claims divine perogatives.

Jesus what? :0) Are you trying to say “prerogatives?” or what? Please try to show us where the terms “Jesus” and “divine” appear in the same verse! Good luck, because ‘divine’ is used only three times (theios #2304 = Acts 17:29, 2Peter 1:3+4) and you have no case! Mathetes is the one making many false ‘claims’ using no Scripture to support A SINGLE WORD.

Things spoken of YHWH in the OT are quoted as refering to Christ in the NT. Isaiah calls Jesus God. The list goes on . . .

You mean “Mathetes’ teaching of false doctrine goes on. :0) Here we have someone proclaiming “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”) with mere finger pointing to the “OT” (heh) and Isaiah (this is ridiculous), as if God failed to provide witnesses testifying that Jesus Christ is most certainly the “Son of God.” Let’s see if Mathetes is willing to believe these guys:

John the Baptist >> "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God." John 1:34.

Peter and “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” >> “He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the SON of the living God." And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 16:15-17.

Mathetes runs backwards into the OT and Isaiah, because he accepts the testimony OF MEN, but he refuses to accept the testimony that GOD HIMSELF has given concerning “His Son**” via all of these NT witnesses! While I respect the right of everyone here to have things “dead wrong,” and know that ‘these things’ are distorted by people everywhere, God appears in bold ‘and’ His Son** has the two asterisks for the spiritually/visually impaired:

[Continued]

 

[Terral]

“If we receive the testimony of men [Mathetes’ post above has no Scripture], the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son**. The one who believes in the Son of God** has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son**. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son**. He who has The Son** has the life; he who does not have the Son of God** does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God**, so that you may know that you have eternal life.” 1John 5:9-13.

How many here know ‘the name’ of the Only Begotten Son OF GOD???? John 3:16-18 again? :0) That name is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ the Only Begotten Son OF GOD who GOD HIMSELF raised from the dead. Romans 10:9. Mathetes cannot make the proclamation that Jesus is Lord ‘and’ that God raised Him (Son of God) from the dead, because in ‘his’ mind “Jesus is God!!!” (He is the “Son of God”) and cannot tell the difference making “God” his liar!

While those among us ‘knowing’ the “one God” AND His Son our Lord Jesus Christ** can show you the difference using tons of Scripture, those blinded by their own idolatry cannot. They stand with Doubting Thomas and petty assertions about ‘divine,’ as if all of that combined is supposed to nullify the “Son of God” testimony from all of God’s witnesses saying the very same thing. Jesus Christ is most certainly the “Son of God” and He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 13:8. Mathetes has no intention of defending his false dogma, because he simply has no case . . .

In Christ Jesus the Son of God,

Terral

 

[barryrob]

No . . . it is common logic. You are setting up a needless false dichotomy.

If there is one God . . . and Jesus calls the Father God . . . and Jesus is not the Father . . . then Jesus is not God . . .

That is the false dilemma you are setting up . . . not only is it a false dichotomy and a errant syllogism . . . it is BAD hermeneutics and faulty exegesis.

Because, while Jesus calls the Father mou theos . . . THOMAS calls JESUS MOU THEOS. So the identity of "My God" is the Godhead members themselves. But you would most certainly contest this . . . being that you espouse the modern day repackaging of the Arian heresy of Dynamic Monarchianism . . . commonly known today as JW theology.

The Bibe does not agree with you!

1 Cor. 15:28 Of Christ to His God!


(Darby) But when all things shall have been brought into subjection to him, then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all.)


(DRB) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


(GNB) But when all things have been placed under Christ's rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all.


(RV) And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.


(WNT) But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all.

Jesus “Subject” to God shows that he is a lesser being than his superior God.


“Subject” - "hupotasso (upotassw, 5293) primarily a military term, "to rank under"(hupo, under," tasso, "to arrange") . . . "-‘Vine's Exops. Dic. of Bible Words’ p.606

 

[GraceSeeker]

Barry Rob, I take it that you don't actually wish an answer to your questions in your post from 20th May 2008 04:14 PM, for I said that could answer them only after you answered my question, but you have chosen to totally ignore my questions.

 

[barryrob]

Barry Rob, I take it that you don't actually wish an answer to your questions in your post from 20th May 2008 04:14 PM, for I said that could answer them only after you answered my question, but you have chosen to totally ignore my questions.

Sorry which one?

 

[GraceSeeker]

Post #85.

 

[barryrob]

To understand your answer, you must first be able to answer these questions:

SEE CAPITALS
To whom is God speaking in this verse:
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)
JESUS CHRIST TO WHOM GOD GAVE POWER:-
MATTHEW 28:18 AND JESUS APPROACHED AND SPOKE TO THEM, SAYING: “ALL AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN ME IN HEAVEN AND ON THE EARTH. SHOWING THAT GOD IS GREATER THEN JESUS!

To whom is John speaking in this verse:
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. (John 20:28)
JESUS AS LORD AND GOD BUT NOT ALMIGHTY GOD:-
JOHN 14:28 THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I AM. AS HE SAID AT JOHN 20:17 “TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.’” HE HAS A GOD WHICH IS THE SAME ONE!


Who are the disciples worshipping in this verse:
And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (Matthew 28:17)
EPHESIANS 1:15-19
THAT IS WHY I ALSO, SINCE I HAVE HEARD OF THE FAITH YOU HAVE IN THE LORD JESUS AND TOWARD ALL THE HOLY ONES, 16 DO NOT CEASE GIVING THANKS FOR YOU. I CONTINUE MENTIONING YOU IN MY PRAYERS, 17 THAT THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, THE FATHER OF GLORY, MAY GIVE YOU A SPIRIT OF WISDOM AND OF REVELATION IN THE ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM; 18 THE EYES OF YOUR HEART HAVING BEEN ENLIGHTENED, THAT YOU MAY KNOW WHAT IS THE HOPE TO WHICH HE CALLED YOU, WHAT THE GLORIOUS RICHES ARE WHICH HE HOLDS AS AN INHERITANCE FOR THE HOLY ONES, 19 AND WHAT THE SURPASSING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER IS TOWARD US BELIEVERS. . . .

PHILIPPIANS 2:11
THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
THIS BRINGING GLORY TO JEHOVAH AS HIS FARTHER/CREATOR AND FOR GIVING HIM AS THE REMSOM FOR MANKIND


Who is the Word made flesh that John is bearing witness to in these verses:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " (John 1:14 & 15)
OF JESUS ON EARTH. IT DOES NOT SAY GOD WAS MADE FLESH!

Who is he that is the Word of God in this set of verses:
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
(Revelation 19:11-16)

ONLY JEHOVAH IS CALLLED THE GOD OF GODS:-
DEUTERONOMY 10:17
FOR JEHOVAH YOUR GOD IS THE GOD OF GODS AND THE LORD OF LORDS, THE GOD GREAT, MIGHTY AND FEAR-INSPIRING,. .
DANIEL 2:47
THE KING WAS ANSWERING DANIEL AND SAYING: “TRULY THE GOD OF YOU MEN IS A GOD OF GODS AND A LORD OF KINGS. . .
JEHOVAH IS OLSO “LORD OF KINGS” WHICH WOULD INCLUDE JESUS.


And what does John say is true with regard to the identification of the Word in these verse:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God**. (John 1:1)
**Note--to translate, as some erroneously want do, this as "a God" is an incorrect rendering of the Greek. (A VERY POOR RENDERING)
'THE N. T.', A NEW TRANSLATION BY RICHMOND LATTIMORE, "AMONG THE MOST DISTINGUISHED TRANSLATORS OF THE GREEK CLASSICS."
JOHN 1:18 "NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD; THE ONLY-BORN GOD WHO IS IN THE BOSOM OF HIS FATHER, IT IS HE WHO TOLD OF HIM."
IN THE ABOVE, ONCE MORE JESUS AS A CREATED BEING!

Who is the God who is at the Father's side in this verse:
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. (John 1:18)
I AGREE WITH THAT!

Who is the one who delivers the message of Revelation to John in these verses:
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. (Revelation 1:17 & 18)
(see also)"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. (Revelation 2:8)
JESUS AS GOD’S SPOKESMAN OR THE WORD

And who is it that is coming soon in this verse:
He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation 22:20)
JESUS

And thus, who is it that is both coming soon AND identified as "the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End" in these verses:
"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. (Revelation 22:12 & 13)
JESUS AT ARMAGEDDON AS GOD’S CHAMPAION TO DESTROY THE WICKED, WHICH IS WHAT JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES ARE PREACHING

And who therefore is speaking making this pronouncement in this verse:
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)
JEHOVAH

Once you have answered these questions I think you will have the answer to yours.
TRUE