The Trinity

[thereselittleflower]

Colossians 2:9
For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is"

How can the fullness of God live in Jesus if they are seperate persons?

the translation you are using is a very loose paraphrase ..

"In whom dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily"​

is the more correct translation.


And the answer is because they are one in BEING, though they are 3 DISTINCT Persons.




Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Is God three personailities in three forms to create one God or is God one personailty seperated into three forms to be one God?

God is changeless and so neither one is true. The Trinity has always been.

Yes, the Trinity has always been, and has alwasy been 3 Distinct Persons, 1 Being.




Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Modalism can come in many forms, and modalists are unitarians by nature, not tritarians.

Those who espouse that God has 3 forms, even calling them perosnalities, are espousing a form of modalism and are, by definition, unitarian, not trinitarian.

It does not matter whether they believe that God moves in and out of these 3 forms/personalities or that they believe God can be in all 3 forms/personalities simulataneously (for God is God and can do all things), it is STILL forms of modalism and their belief is STILL UNITARIAN.


In the beginning, God said

"Let US make man in OUR image"​

Genuine and real Plurality in the Godhead . . something denied by those holding to unitarianism/modalism.

It was not until God revealed through Jesus and His Church the nature of this Plurality being the Trinity, the 3 PERSONS of the GODHEAD, one in Being, that we could begin to know the true nature of this plurality.

THREE PERSONS . . . ONE BEING . . . GOD.



Peace

 

[lmnop9876]

Modalism can come in many forms, and modalists are unitarians by nature, not tritarians.

Those who espouse that God has 3 forms, even calling them perosnalities, are espousing a form of modalism and are, by definition, unitarian, not trinitarian.

It does not matter whether they believe that God moves in and out of these 3 forms/personalities or that they believe God can be in all 3 forms/personalities simulataneously (for God is God and can do all things), it is STILL forms of modalism and their belief is STILL UNITARIAN.


In the beginning, God said

"Let US make man in OUR image"​

Genuine and real Plurality in the Godhead . . something denied by those holding to unitarianism/modalism.

It was not until God revealed through Jesus and His Church the nature of this Plurality being the Trinity, the 3 PERSONS of the GODHEAD, one in Being, that we could begin to know the true nature of this plurality.

THREE PERSONS . . . ONE BEING . . . GOD.



Peace

but here we must be careful not to lose the "one God" part of our faith. too many Christians (I am not referring to you here) seem to lose sight of the fact that God does not exist in isolation from His Word and His Spirit, and understand them almost as three Gods. this is not the case. God is One Being. He is not three separate Beings. Yet He is three Persons. an awesome mystery that we can never fully understand as finite humans!

 

[thereselittleflower]

That is exactly right. . .

One God who is 3 Persons, 1 Being.



Peace

 

[hlaltimus]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

That there is a Creator all of creation strongly demands. That this Creator is infinite in power and in knowledge the scale of creation also demands. Since there must be and is a Being who's very existence is an infinity beyond us, that Being's nature or constitution must necessarily also be infinite and therefore incomprehensible to finite minds. Supposing that the historical doctrine of the Trinity is correct, and the Scriptures teach that it is, this doctrine, being also incomprehensible, is running in exactly the right path that it would run if it were true.

 

[PolycarpII]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

Really good question. However, the real truth is that the Trinity is God and nothing in the human mind can ever fully understand it. However, the doctrine runs like this: there is one God and only one God, but he exists as three divine persons. The Father is fully divine, the Son is fully divine, and the Spirit is fully divine. They are all equal. Also there are no parts in the Godhead, so the Father is not part of God, but is God, and likewise with the Son and the Spirit. Also because of their equality the fulness of divinity lies in all three as it does in the community, which means that there is no more God in the whole Trinity than there is in the Holy Spirit. Each person is perfectly equal. Catholics liken it to this analogy: The Father is the perfect mind which infinitely (without beginning or end) conceives and bears forth His Son which is the perfect self realization of God, which in philosophy is called Logos. This inspires the infinite self love of God, which proceeds from the Father and through the Son, which we call the Holy Spirit. But it also must be remembered that we worship the Trinity in unity and that each Divine personality is consubstantial with the others. This means that the Father does not act independently and neither does the other three; they each act in perfect accord with the others. We also teach that because the Father is the origin of the Trinity that makes the Father the one in, for lack of a better word, charge. We call this the doctrine of the Monarchy of God.

It is interesting to note that the doctrine of the Trinity is partly a cause of the division between the Orthodox and the Catholics. The Orthodox say that the Spirit proceeds from the Father alone, and Catholics say that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son or from the Father through the Son. This arises from two different theological approaches to the doctrine of the Trinity: the east has always approached, or generally approaches, the Trinity by looking at the individual divine personalities and working inward to the unity. The Catholic Church has always worked from the unity and outward to the individual personalities.

In Christ,
Allen

 

[PolycarpII]

I have never yet heard an analogy of the Trinity that wasn't a heresy. Best to stay away from them I think.

"Take a sheet of A4 paper and write on one side the word 'God' and on the other side the words 'Single Personality'. This, we will call 'the Unitarian model'.

Take a second sheet of A4 paper, place it 'portrait' style (shortest edges at the top and bottom) and fold it horizontally into three thirds (as you would a letter).

In the 'outside' center third, write the word 'GOD'.

Turn the sheet over and in the 'inside' left hand third write the word 'Father'. In the center third write the word 'Son' and in the right hand third write the words 'Holy Spirit'.

Take the sheet and, cutting from left to right of the 'landscape' side (the longer side), cut along both of the folds (but only two thirds of the way) so that you end up with three distinct but not separate strips. This, we will call 'the Trinitarian model'

Now, take a third sheet of A4 paper and duplicate the Trinitarian model but this time write the word 'god' on the 'outside' of all three strips' and cut all the way accross so that you end up with three separate strips. This we will call 'the Tri-theist model'."

the only problem with this model is it denotes that there are parts within the God head. Which is not possible. Because the TRinity is a Transcendant mystery (Mysterium) their cannot ever be an anology that will ever adequately describe it.

In Christ,
Allen

 

[Simonline]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

The Bible teaches that there is only one Entity that is Divine. This Entity we call 'God'. [A 'god' is anyone or anything that has power and authority over us and the degree to which that person or thing has power and authority over us is the degree to which that person or thing is a 'god' over us. This is the objective 'non-religious' definition of the term 'god'.]

Since the ultimate god is the one that is Divine, that God is diferentiated from all other temporal created gods by the use of the capital first letter 'G'.

The Bible teaches us that God is Eternal. That is to say that God exists outside of time. He is non-temporal. For this reason God is also Immutable, He does not change.

The Bible also tells us that God is 'Tri-Personal' (rather than 'mono-personal' like His temporal creatures that are made in His likeness). This means that God subsists as Three distinct (not separate) Persons (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) all of whom are the One God, both individually and collectively.

I will continue this later when I have more time...

Simonline.

 

[coons786c]

God would not let people be confused about him for he is not the author of confusion. Father, Son, Holy Ghost are not seperate being just titles of God, Like we all have titles. Today, I am a worker, when I go home I am an husband. I am a father to my son. We all have diffrent titles we portray but same Person. Same thing with Jesus Christ. Jesus had 3 titles, Father in creation, Son in Redemption and Holy Ghost in believers today. One Spirit just diffrent roles or titles he portrayed. You will not see 3 Gods in one in heaven for Revelation 4:2 States that one is on the throne.

 

[coons786c]

The Trinity was formulated in 325 AD at the council of nicene. Over 100 years after the last book of the bible was written. The apostles did not teach it, but a emperor named constatine tought it with his 318 bishops. They were disputing Matt 28:19 and could not figure it out. So they came up with the trinity. 3 Persons in one God. The bible contradics this view.

 

[minasoliman]

If you can go back and read the whole thread instead of making blanket statements, I'm sure you can write a more effective argument.

 

[barryrob]

They cannot as God is ONE:-

Deuteronomy 1:30
Jehovah YOUR God is the one going before YOU. . . .

Deuteronomy 6:4
"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
​

​

Mark 12:29
Jesus answered: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,

1 Corinthians 8:6
there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.
​

Ephesians 4:4-6
One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.

The Trinity is not to be found in the pages of the Bible!
barryrob​

 

[GraceSeeker]

They cannot as God is ONE:-

Deuteronomy 1:30
Jehovah YOUR God is the one going before YOU. . . .​

Deuteronomy 6:4
"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. ​

Mark 12:29
Jesus answered: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,​

1 Corinthians 8:6
there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.​

Ephesians 4:4-6
One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.​

The Trinity is not to be found in the pages of the Bible!
barryrob​

And what difference does that make? There are many things never mentioned in the Bible that we know are true simply by observing them. The Trinity is not itself biblical doctrine, it is a label applied to what people observed to be true of God -- namely that the one God had made himself known to us in three distinct persons, yet each person was in fact still God.

BTW, the word "Jehovah" is not to be found in any Bible either. It was an English word invented by translators who took the vowels from the Jewish word adonai, meaning "Lord" and put them into the Hebrew tetragram YHWH (God's name in Hebrew without any vowels in it) and then by a perversion of the English alphabet the Y became a J and the W a V. To this day many Jews will not only not pronounce's God's name, but they won't write it either and you will see post mentioning G-d if you venture into a Jewish forum, but never Jehovah.

 

[TruthMiner]

And what difference does that make? There are many things never mentioned in the Bible that we know are true simply by observing them. The Trinity is not itself biblical doctrine, it is a label applied to what people observed to be true of God -- name that the one God had made himself known to us in three distinct persons, yet each person was in fact still God.

BTW, the word "Jehovah" is not to be found in any Bible either. It was an English word invented by translators who took the vowels from the Jewish word adonai, meaning "Lord" and put them into the Hebrew tetragram YHWH (God's name in Hebrew without any vowels in it) and then by a perversion of the English alphabet the Y became a J and the W a V. To this day many Jews will not only not pronounce's God's name, but they won't write it either and you will see post mentioning G-d if you venture into a Jewish forum, but never Jehovah.

Saw this and thought it was interesting.

Try to answer these questions.

TRUE or FALSE

Answer True or False for each question.

1. Jesus is the one true God.

2. The Triune God is the one true God.

3. The One true God is the Triune God.

4. The Triune God is Jesus.

5. The One true God is Jesus.

6. Jesus is the Triune God.

7. The Father is the one true God.

8. The one true God is the Father.

9. The Father is the Triune God.

10. The Triune God is the Father.

 

[Theophorus]

The Trinity was formulated in 325 AD at the council of nicene. Over 100 years after the last book of the bible was written. The apostles did not teach it, but a emperor named constatine tought it with his 318 bishops. They were disputing Matt 28:19 and could not figure it out. So they came up with the trinity. 3 Persons in one God. The bible contradics this view.

The Trinity was established over a period of time after a battle spanning centuries. The arian view was actually more popular. The Trinitarians were in the minority during most of the battle with more than 1 emperor embracing the Arian position. It is a miracle in itself that the Trinitarian view triumphed as the orthodox view.

Some would assert that only by the Holy Spirit could this have happened.

 

[GraceSeeker]

Saw this and thought it was interesting.

Try to answer these questions.

TRUE or FALSE

Answer True or False for each question.

1. Jesus is the one true God.

2. The Triune God is the one true God.

3. The One true God is the Triune God.

4. The Triune God is Jesus.

5. The One true God is Jesus.

6. Jesus is the Triune God.

7. The Father is the one true God.

8. The one true God is the Father.

9. The Father is the Triune God.

10. The Triune God is the Father.

Because of the use of the definite article THE, I can affirm only #2 & #3 as true.

However the above statements can be be rended as true statements with the following modifications.

1. Jesus is true God.

2. The Triune God is the one true God. (already true)

3. The One true God is the Triune God. (already true)

4. The Triune God is manifested in Jesus.

5. The One true God is manifested in Jesus.

6. Jesus is one person in the Triune God.

7. The Father is true God.

8. The one true God is worshipped when we worship the Father.

9. The Father is one person in the Triune God.

10. The Triune God is worshipped when we worship the Father.

There are a few other important truths that we would not want to omit:

11. The one true God is worshipped when we worship Jesus.

12. The Triune God is worshipped when we worship Jesus.

13. The one true God is worshipped when we worship the Holy Spirit.

14. The Triune God is worshipped when we worship the Holy Spirit.

15. The Triune God is the one true God and exists in three personas who eternally co-exist as one.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

Better to not try too hard . . . we cross categories that our finite minds cannot comprehend.

There is much that can be known . . . but how exactly the three are one and the one is three is the mystery . . . THAT the three are one and the one is three though is biblical fact.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

The Trinity was formulated in 325 AD at the council of nicene. Over 100 years after the last book of the bible was written. The apostles did not teach it, but a emperor named constatine tought it with his 318 bishops. They were disputing Matt 28:19 and could not figure it out. So they came up with the trinity. 3 Persons in one God. The bible contradics this view.

Not . . . re-read your history dude.

 

[barryrob]

“My God” who is He?​

To whom was Jesus calling to at:-

Matthew 27:46
“About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: "E´li, E´li, la´ma sa·bach·tha´ni?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"”


Which is literally rendered "this is the God of me, God of me."-'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interlinear Translated by Alfred Marshall*

Who is Jesus referring to at:-

John 20:17
“Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father (Literal Gk. “Father of me”^) and YOUR Father and to my God (Literal Gk. “God of me”^) and YOUR God.’”
^'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interlinear Translated by Alfred Marshall

“my poss[essive]. pron[oun]. (attrib.) 1 of or belonging to me. 2 affectionate, patronizing, etc. form of address (my dear boy). 3 in expressions of surprise (my God!; oh my!). 4 colloq. indicating a close relative etc. of the speaker (my Johnny's ill again). my Lady (or Lord) form of address to certain titled persons. [from *mine1] .”-Oxford Dictionary

“god n[oun]. 1 a (in many religions) superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature, human fortunes, etc. b image, idol, etc., symbolizing a god. 2 (God) (in Christian and other monotheistic religions) creator and ruler of the universe. 3 adored or greatly admired person. … .”-Oxford Dictionary

Jesus must have been calling to the Almighty (the Father, his God, see John 20:17, “my God”, (Lit. Gk. "God of me" 'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' with Interliner Translated by Alfred Marshall) quoting from Ps 22:1 where King David was, showing that God is somone other than himself. No, Jesus cannot be Almighty God if he plainly says in the above texts that he himself has a God!


We can also add to the above, the following words, where Jesus is speaking from an exulted heavenly postion:-

Revelation 3:12-13
"‘The one that conquers—I* will make him a pillar in the temple of my God**, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I* will write upon him the name*** of my God** and the name of the city of my God**, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God**, and that new name of mine. Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’”

*Jesus Christ
**Which in litrealy rendered "the God of me."-'The NASB-NIV parallel N.T. in Gk. & Eng.' With Interliner Translated by Alfred Marshall
***Jehovah

So we can ask again, who is Jesus talking about, as it cannot be himself?

The God of Jesus, as at Micah 5:2-4
“And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth--to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity. 3 Therefore he doth give them out till the time She who bringeth forth hath brought forth, And the remnant of his brethren return to the sons of Israel. 4 And he hath stood and delighted in the strength of Jehovah, In the excellency of the name of Jehovah his God, And they have remained, For now he is great unto the ends of earth.”-‘Young’s Literal Translation’

​

Psalm 89:26-29​

26 He himself [Jesus] calls out to me [Jehovah], ‘You are my Father, My God and the Rock of my [Jesus’] salvation.’
27 Also, I myself [Jehovah] shall place him [Jesus] as firstborn, The most high of the kings of the earth.
28 To time indefinite I [Jehovah] shall preserve my loving-kindness toward him [Jesus], And my [Jehovah’s] covenant will be faithful to him [Jesus].
29 And I shall certainly set up his [Jesus’] seed forever And his [Jesus’] throne as the days of heaven.

Jesus is the greater King David!


So if Jesus has a God how can he be God?