The Trinity

[whoisofthelord]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

 

[Theophorus]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

You cannot undedrstnad what it is, you would be better off to understand what it is not.

That being said, they are three hypostasis of God, that have the same essence. You may have the Holy Spirit of God, but you do not have his essence. If you look at the Nicene Creed, you get a description of the the Trinity. All of the descriptions are from the scriptures except the word "essence". It was decided to by the council to include this description to insure against another heresy like Arius'.




The Nicene Creed


I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, True God of True God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from the heavens, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man;

And was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;

And rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures;

And ascended into the heavens, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father;

And shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;

In One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I Confess one Baptism for the remission of sins.

I look for the Resurrection of the dead,

And the life of the age to come, Amen.

 

[Maximus]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

Well, you need to remove those equals signs, if by them you mean the Father is the Son is the Holy Spirit.

God the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.

We cannot really "understand" the Holy Trinity. We can make imperfect analogies that help us to cope with a mystery that is too big for us but that is reasonable given the data available.

The Bible tells us that God is One and that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.

Those are the data available to us.

The Church Fathers used that data and the tradition of the Church - in this case the fact that Christians had always worshipped Jesus Christ - to formulate and define the doctrine of the Trinity: that God is one in being or substance (ousios) in three different Persons (hypostases).

The Father is the Fountainhead of the Trinity. He eternally begets His Son and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father.

Yet there never was a time when the Son and the Holy Spirit did not exist. The Father has always been the Father. The Son or Word has always been the Only-Begotten Son. The Holy Spirit has always proceeded from the Father.

Think of the Father as the sun, the Son as the sun's rays, and the Holy Spirit as the sun's heat. That is an imperfect analogy (like all analogies must be in this case), but one can see the similarities: where the sun is, there are its rays and its heat. You can't have any one of them without the other two, and the sun itself is the engine of all three.

The Holy Trinity is the most profound of mysteries. We'll never understand it perfectly.

I am sure others here will provide you with insights that I may have neglected.

 

[elijah115]

All the titles of God are borne by God the Father. He sent his son Jesus Christ to save the world. Having accomplishing all this He raised Jesus to His right Hand. Jesus is the Word of God, one in purpose with nature with God, having the authority of God given him and possessing the nature of God. The risen Lord Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, Mighty God, and He who is without sin. He is the image of God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth sent by the Word of God, that is Son, and the Father. John 14 tells you about the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives life by confirming the Word of God to believers and santifies. The answer is endless. I'd think I have to do a little more reason but these are a few things that come to mind.

 

[Haggai]

Someone please help me with understanding the trinity...God the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit?

How can one be three?

God is not three divine beings in one.
There is a Godhead, consisting of 3 physically separate beings (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) but of the same purpose, all equally divine.

 

[stray bullet]

To understand the Trinity, I believe part of the Preface of the Tridentine Mass says it well:

"O holy Lord, Father almighty, everlasting God; Who, together with Thine only-begotten Son, and the Holy Ghost, art one God, one Lord: not in the oneness of a single Person, but in the Trinity of one substance. For what we believe by Thy revelation of Thy glory, the same do we believe of Thy Son, the same of the Holy Ghost, without difference or separation. So that in confessing the true and everlasting Godhead, distinction in persons, unity in essence, and equality in majesty may be adored."

 

[jgonz]

Hear o Israel, the L-rd thy G-d is One.

I see the 3 as Facets of G-d. For example: one diamond, but you turn it to different angles and it looks a little different... but it's still the same 1 diamond.

 

[eladoni]

Hear o Israel, the L-rd thy G-d is One.

I see the 3 as Facets of G-d. For example: one diamond, but you turn it to different angles and it looks a little different... but it's still the same 1 diamond.

That is true, but we also must remember the elohiem is in the plural....

Now, we can go around in circles explain the trinity, but NONE of us UNDERSTANDS it.

All I have to say about that is: ISN'T THAT WONDERFULL? Meaning, that it is wonderfull that God is so much higher then us that we cannot understand him.

There are many scripture passages that point to the trinity, but one of the most prevelant, is where Jesus is baptized. Jesus is baptized, the father says "this is my son..." and the holy spirit decends upon him.

There are many other passages supporting, and acknowledging both the deity of Jesus and the holy spirit, the father, of course has many supporting passages too.

Now, you will never hear teh word "trinity" in the bible, that is drawn from the many supporting passages I mentioned. And the trinity is 3 in 1 and 1 in 3.

They are both. 3 seperates persons (not personalitys) but they are 1. and they a 1 person, but are 3 seperate persons.

Here is a article that I think is pretty good on it.

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?
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Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are, therefore we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean it is not true or not based on the teachings of the Bible.

Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word "Trinity" is not used in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God, the fact that there are 3 coexistent, co-eternal persons that make up God. Understand that this is NOT in any way suggesting 3 Gods. The Trinity is 1 God made up of 3 persons. There is nothing wrong with using the term "Trinity" even though the word is not found in the Bible. It is shorter to say the word "Trinity" than to say "3 coexistent, co-eternal persons making up 1 God." If this presents a problem to you, consider this: the word grandfather is not used in the Bible either. Yet, we know there were grandfathers in the Bible. Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob. So don't get hung up on the term "Trinity" itself. What should be of real importance is that the concept that is REPRESENTED by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. With the introduction out of the way, Bible verses will be given in discussion of the Trinity.

1) There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons: Genesis 1:1; 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; 48:16; 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17; Matt 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14. In the passages in the Old Testament, a knowledge of Hebrew is helpful. In Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is WITHOUT question. In English, you only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms - definitely more than two - and must be referring to three or more (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of 3 distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages: In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The "LORD" has a "Son" (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, John 14:16-17 is where Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit. This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all of the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity - the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God: The Father is God: John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2. The Son is God: John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16 (The One who indwells is the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9; John 14:16-17; Acts 2:1-4).

5) The subordination within the Trinity: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship, and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The tasks of the individual members of the Trinity: The Father is the ultimate source or cause of: 1) the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); 2) divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); 3) salvation (John 3:16-17); and 4) Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father INITIATES all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: 1) the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); 2) divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and 3) salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: 1) creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); 2) divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); 3) salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and 4) Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

None of the popular illustrations are completely accurate descriptions of the Trinity. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not parts of God, each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better but still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration. Instead of focusing on the Trinity, try to focus on the fact of God's greatness and infinitely higher nature than our own. "Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34) *taken from "got questions .org"





I think that this diagram might help you also:

 

[depthdeception]

Hear o Israel, the L-rd thy G-d is One.

I see the 3 as Facets of G-d. For example: one diamond, but you turn it to different angles and it looks a little different... but it's still the same 1 diamond.

Modalism...

 

[pharmacy_student]

Modalism...

It is definately important to define what Modalism is and that it is unbiblical.

Modalism implies that there is One God who takes on Three different roles at various times in history - Father in Creation, Son in redemption and Holy Spirit in regeneration. This is wrong because no where in the bible is God thought of having 'three modes'.

In the bible we find that Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and The Father is God. As the first post said, the Son is begotten by the Father and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father, yet all three have always existed (note Genesis 1 where it repeatedly states "Let us" - implying there was more than one person present at creation). There is one God who exists at three co-eternal and three co-existent persons. All three are equally divine.

The best analogy I can think of is that of water.

Water at a particular pressure and temperature is able to exists simultaneously as Ice, Liquid and Gas - we have all three states of the same substance (water) existing at the same time.

Paul says in 1 Timothy that "Great is the mystery of Godliness" and while we can only inadequately explain the nature of the trinity, we must explore what it is and the implications of having a triune God.

Jason

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Some of my thoughts...


1. The Trinity does not say that the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit.


2. It's called a MYSTERY for a good reason... It's beyond our reason.


3. (Puts Physics hat on) the whole question doesn't apply. Number is a property of physics. God is not physical and the laws of physics don't apply. (Takes Physics hat off).


4. ANY physical illustration will fail to describe the unphysical God.


5. Here's the best explaination I know of. It happens to be the official one, too.

We worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Etneral and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity is Trinity, and the Trinity is Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.


I hope that helps...


My $0.01...


Keep the faith! Share the love!


- Josiah



.

 

[Akathist]

It is very hard to understand the concept of the Trinity. Often we want things to fit easy descriptions but with God this is not always possible.

The fact is that God's ways are above our ways. We can not fully understand God.

To quote another, wiser person then me: Any god I can fully understand is not God.

I am glad the OP asked the question as this is an interesting area of exploration and it is an area where most Christian's are in unity. It is a shame this thread is not busting out of the seams with posts but threads that express different perspectives grow longer and more unpleasant by the hour.

 

[Knee V]

I have found one particular analogy to be, perhaps not "helpful", but "interesting".

Take three torches and put their flames together, and imagine that the sticks are no longer there. How many flames are there now? There are three flames, and there is one flame. Thus 1+1+1=1

 

[PaladinValer]

I think that this diagram might help you also:

The Rings Method!

 

[PastorMikeJ]

Psssst.... It is a God thing...

 

[oldsage]

Think of the Father as the sun, the Son as the sun's rays, and the Holy Spirit as the sun's heat. That is an imperfect analogy (like all analogies must be in this case), but one can see the similarities: where the sun is, there are its rays and its heat. You can't have any one of them without the other two, and the sun itself is the engine of all three.

* biting tongue about analogies *

tho, you did state it is imperfect

 

[Maximus]

* biting tongue about analogies *

tho, you did state it is imperfect

Yes, I did.

I did that to save tongues like yours from possible injury.

In this case all analogies - and all words - fall short.

 

[SpiritualSon]

whoisofthelord,
I am a member of the New Church. This church's doctrines are base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. The Soul, Body and Spirit of Jesus Christ, is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Every person has a trinity in them, which is the soul, body and spirit, and this makes one person. The Trinity in Jesus Christ is Divine, ours is human. By this we are an image and likeness of God. In Paul:1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the may very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord. The Holy Trinity is not made up of three Divine Persons.

One God is the Creator, Redeemer, and Regenerator. Jesus Christ is the Father, because of His Divine Love and Divine Good. It is this what sent Him. He wasn't sent by another person, but by His own Divine Love.

Jesus said: "I am come from God" (John 8:42);
"The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what he seeth the Father do". (John 5:19) As we have already seen, Simon Peter said: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt. 16:16) At the Lord's baptism a voice from heaven was heard to say: "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." ("Matt. 3:17) The Lord also said: "My Father is greater than I." (John 14:28); and "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (John 14:6) On the cross Jesus said: "Father, forgive them ..." (Luke 23:34), and "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" (Matt. 27:46) Also, after the resurrection, the Lord said to the disciples, "Teach all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father , and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19) In this last passage, not only does it seem that the Father and the Son are distinct, but also that there is yet a third Divine Person or Being, the Holy Spirit.

If we were to consult only such passages as these, and ignore all the others that seem to conflict with them, we might come to the conclusion that God is in three Persons. This is extremely puzzling to anyone of a reflective turn of mind, because his common sense tells him that there simply cannot be three Divine Persons, or three Divine Beings because this is the same as saying that there can be three Infinities of three Gods.

Philip therefore says: "Lord shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." (John 14: 8) The Lord's answer is worthy of our closest attention, for in it the misunderstanding is removed: "Have I been so long time with you," (He asked) "and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (verse 9) Could anything be more plain? What other Father can there be but the One whom Philip's eyes were beholding? How can the Jesus not be the Father? This nothing to do with the Eternal Son, before creation. There were no Son of God before creation. The Son of God was born in time to the virgin Mary, which means not born from eternity, which has no time and space.

What Jesus meant by these words:
"I am come from God" (John 8:42) - the Body came forth from the Soul.
"The Son can do nothing of Himself, - but what He seeth the Father do" (John 5:19) - the Body can do nothing of Itself, but what it is directed to do by the Soul.

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16: 16) - The Messiah, the Body of the Infinite itself, which alone is Life-in-itself.

"This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) - the Divine Body in which it pleased the Father to dwell while on earth.

"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) - the Soul is greater than the Body, since it directs it.

"No Man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6) - Just as we cannot know a person's soul until we see how the person behaves in life. This means the Soul of Jesus Christ is the Father, His Divine Love. Man's soul is how he loves. God the Father so loved the world, that He sent Himself as the Son.

Harry

Why am I still the last post? Lets keep going. I remember someone posting on a Christian forum, that if you don't answer a person's post, that means you believe the post is true. Back in the year 1966 until 1968, when I study Swedenborg's writings while being a Catholic, I would keep it from the Catholic Church. I became a New Church member in 1968 in NYC. Only the Catholics who have charity in them, can be led to the truth, because good love truth, and evil loves false ideas.

Harry

 

[oldsage]

whoisofthelord,
I am a member of the New Church. This church's doctrines are base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. The Soul, Body and Spirit of Jesus Christ, is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Every person has a trinity in them, which is the soul, body and spirit, and this makes one person. The Trinity in Jesus Christ is Divine, ours is human. By this we are an image and likeness of God. In Paul:1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the may very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord. The Holy Trinity is not made up of three Divine Persons.

One God is the Creator, Redeemer, and Regenerator. Jesus Christ is the Father, because of His Divine Love and Divine Good. It is this what sent Him. He wasn't sent by another person, but by His own Divine Love.

Jesus said: "I am come from God" (John 8:42);
"The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what he seeth the Father do". (John 5:19) As we have already seen, Simon Peter said: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt. 16:16) At the Lord's baptism a voice from heaven was heard to say: "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." ("Matt. 3:17) The Lord also said: "My Father is greater than I." (John 14:28); and "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (John 14:6) On the cross Jesus said: "Father, forgive them ..." (Luke 23:34), and "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" (Matt. 27:46) Also, after the resurrection, the Lord said to the disciples, "Teach all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father , and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19) In this last passage, not only does it seem that the Father and the Son are distinct, but also that there is yet a third Divine Person or Being, the Holy Spirit.

If we were to consult only such passages as these, and ignore all the others that seem to conflict with them, we might come to the conclusion that God is in three Persons. This is extremely puzzling to anyone of a reflective turn of mind, because his common sense tells him that there simply cannot be three Divine Persons, or three Divine Beings because this is the same as saying that there can be three Infinities of three Gods.

Philip therefore says: "Lord shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." (John 14: 8) The Lord's answer is worthy of our closest attention, for in it the misunderstanding is removed: "Have I been so long time with you," (He asked) "and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (verse 9) Could anything be more plain? What other Father can there be but the One whom Philip's eyes were beholding? How can the Jesus not be the Father? This nothing to do with the Eternal Son, before creation. There were no Son of God before creation. The Son of God was born in time to the virgin Mary, which means not born from eternity, which has no time and space.

What Jesus meant by these words:
"I am come from God" (John 8:42) - the Body came forth from the Soul.
"The Son can do nothing of Himself, - but what He seeth the Father do" (John 5:19) - the Body can do nothing of Itself, but what it is directed to do by the Soul.

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16: 16) - The Messiah, the Body of the Infinite itself, which alone is Life-in-itself.

"This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) - the Divine Body in which it pleased the Father to dwell while on earth.

"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) - the Soul is greater than the Body, since it directs it.

"No Man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6) - Just as we cannot know a person's soul until we see how the person behaves in life. This means the Soul of Jesus Christ is the Father, His Divine Love. Man's soul is how he loves. God the Father so loved the world, that He sent Himself as the Son.

Harry

This has nothing to do with the doctrine of the Trinity. For one it is Modalism which is a heresy already addressed by the church about 1700 years ago , and it also has a stint of Apollinarianism, another heresy addressed by the church at the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD.

You may want to go back and read the early church and how they viewed these heresies.

 

[relspace]

It is definately important to define what Modalism is and that it is unbiblical.

Modalism implies that there is One God who takes on Three different roles at various times in history - Father in Creation, Son in redemption and Holy Spirit in regeneration. This is wrong because no where in the bible is God thought of having 'three modes'.

Paul says in 1 Timothy that "Great is the mystery of Godliness" and while we can only inadequately explain the nature of the trinity, we must explore what it is and the implications of having a triune God.

Jason

The Trinity has always been a difficult point for me too, but I just had a thought coming from Christology that brought me much closer to comprehension of this doctrine.

I believe that God created both time and space and thus that God exists outside of time and space. And yet I also believe that God is omnipresent - everywhere in time and space as well. Furthermore I believe Jesus is fully God and fully man. This gives God three apparently contradictory attributes of being a man with a particular place and time in history, being everywhere in time and space and being outside of time as well. Now I suppose it is probably inaccurate or "modalistic" as pharmacy_student calls it, to identify the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit each to one of these three apparently contradictory attributes. But it certainly gives me a simple minded reason to think of God as three.

I think God is infinite. His infinite power logically implies to me that God can be as many as He wants to be, while remaining one and the same. But the above thoughts give Him in my mind an immediate and important aspect of three-ness which I can relate to. Cannot modalism be a trinitarianism for the unsophisticated beginner like my own simple-minded grasp of the Trinity. I am not sure that depthdeception is correct in identifying jgonz as modalist anyway.

Far be it from me to argue in favor Modalism or anything. But I would like to point out that the word "trinity" is not in the Bible any more than the word "mode". So I was sitting here trying to puzzle out why there is such a serious objection to Modalism. I guess it is the implication that God is only one of these three at a time, as if Jesus is now no more and all we have is the Father or the Holy Spirit. This presents difficulties with many fundamental Christian beliefs. For example, how can Jesus be the mediator between God and man, unless Jesus remains and is different from God the Father. I certainly see how Modalism can be a source of confusion when reading the Bible.