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Where is this Scirpture please so that I can see it in context....mutzrein said:
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Where is this Scirpture please so that I can see it in context....mutzrein said:The bible also says, ". . . every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."
Does that mean everyone will believe that Jesus is God and therefore everyone will be 'saved?'
I believe the Bible says that in the end those who had denied Y'shua as Messiah and Savior go to hell. But before being cast into separation, they do confess that He is L-rd of allmutzrein said:The bible also says, ". . . every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."
Does that mean everyone will believe that Jesus is God and therefore everyone will be 'saved?'
Yes it would be a little hard to deny the Divinity of the Lord when He is standing right before you and judging you would it not?Gwenyfur said:I believe the Bible says that in the end those who had denied Y'shua as Messiah and Savior go to hell. But before being cast into separation, they do confess that He is L-rd of all
Revelation 20:11-15
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Yes and since we know that the Lord Jesus is God then we know and we know that our judgement is in His hands then we shall be confessing this to God ..... the Lord Jesus Christ ....Gwenyfur said:
Who forgives us, calls us His own, strengthens us, and keeps us...debiwebi said:Yes and since we know that the Lord Jesus is God then we know and we know that our judgement is in His hands then we shall be confessing this to God ..... the Lord Jesus Christ ....
Mat 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.Gwenyfur said:Who forgives us, calls us His own, strengthens us, and keeps us...
John 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
this is my point. its like you are saying that you have to believe that to be "saved". what i am trying to say is that that stuff doesnt matter. jesus didnt say "if you love me you will write a short thesis explaining my nature" he said "if you love me you will obey my commands".Jig said:I'm too lazy to type out this answer, but here is a quote from a website that answers this to a degree, maybe someone else can contribute some more 'evidence'.
If Jesus is God in flesh, then shouldn't He know what the day and hour of his return would be? After all, God knows all things. Therefore, if Jesus doesn't know all things, then He cannot be God.
This objection is most often raised by the Jehovah's Witnesses but is also echoed by the Christadelphians. It is a good question.
Jesus was both God and man. He had two natures. He was divine and human at the same time. This teaching is known as the hypostatic union; that is, the coming-together of two natures in one person. In Heb. 2:9 that Jesus was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ." Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ." Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." Jesus was both God and man at the same time.
As a man, Jesus cooperated with the limitations of being a man. That is why we have verses like Luke 2:52 that says "Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." Therefore, at this point in his ministry he could say He did not know the day nor hour of His return. It is not a denial of His being God, but a confirmation of Him being man.
Also, the logic that Jesus could not be God because He did not know all things works both ways. If we could find a scripture where Jesus does know all things, then that would prove that He was God, wouldn't it?He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus *said to him, "Tend My sheep" (John 21:17 - NASB).
Jesus did not correct Peter and say, "Hold on Peter, I do not know all things." He let Peter continue on with his statement that Jesus knew all things. Therefore, it must be true.
But, if we have a verse that says that Jesus did not know all things and another that says he did know all things, then isn't that a contradiction? No. It is not.
Before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection He said the Father alone knew the day and hour of His return. It wasn't until after Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection that omniscience is attributed to Jesus. As I said before, Jesus was cooperating with the limitations of being a man and completed His ministry on this earth. He was then glorified in His resurrection. Yet, He was still a man (cf. Col. 2:9; 1 Tim. 2:5). After Jesus' resurrection, He was able to appear and disappear at will. This is not the normal ability of a man. But, it is, apparently, the normal ability of a resurrected and glorified man. Jesus was different after the resurrection. There had been a change. He was still a man and He knew all things.
thereselittleflower said:Cleany . . Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord AND MY GOD"
Jesus refers to Himself "I AM" which is the Jewish name for God. . . This is how God refers to Himself in the Old Testament.Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.This is BLASPHEMY for any human to refer to themselves as the "I AM" . .
Read the passage this is found in. . .read how the Jews responded to Him . . .
This shows that they understood that He was saying He was GOD HIMSELF.
So yes, it is clear from scripture that JESUS is GOD . ..
Peace to all
i will admit to being frustrated by the continual use of bible quotes to "prove" something, especially given the apparent need for "citation". this is something that really needs looking at.Jig said:Romans 10:9-10 pretty much says it all.
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Here we see we must believe Jesus is Lord.
this isnt to mention for example what "believes" means, or what "enters through me" means. or the other hundreds of quotes available about salvation.he who stands firm to the end will be saved
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
whoever enters through me will be saved
everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved
Even all the way back in the beginning ephasis added is minedebiwebi said:Joh 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me.
Joh 16:7 But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go. For if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you: but if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will convince the world of sin and of justice and of judgment.
Joh 16:9 Of sin: because they believed not in me.
Joh 16:10 And of justice: because I go to the Father: and you shall see me no longer.
Joh 16:11 And of judgment: because the prince of this world is already judged.
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
Isa 9:6 For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.
I also became a believer before I fully accepted the Trinity..... there was a point when I had to accept that a Trinity existed simply on Faith alone until such time that I was better able to research it and grasp the premise better ....mutzrein said:I'm interested to note that you say you became a believer before you 'accepted' the trinity. Mmmmmm - so you are saying it is not necessary to accept Jesus is God to be saved? Thanks.
Having Faith in God and our understanding of Him is exactly part of our belief and should be because it is God we worship so therefore we have to know whom we are worshipping ..... If you do not know who you are worshipping and you believe that God is ambigious at best then you do not have the meaning of belief and Faith requiredcleany said:also, yet again, im not saying that jesus "isnt god". im saying that understanding of the exact nature of god is ambiguous at best and is not a part of believers faith.
debiwebi said:Exodus 3:14 - God says "I AM who I AM" - John 8:58 - Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM" in reference to Himself.
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.
Joh 8:57 The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old. And hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.
OK here is the all important question......mutzrein said:What Jesus was saying plainly was that he was the son of God - making himself equal with God - and that was the reason they killed him.
But nowdays it seems to some that being equal has been developed (almost as a mathematical equation is) into one being the same as the other. Some would say they are not.
As John the Baptist testifies, no-one has seen God but the only son of God who is at the Father's side has made him known.
And as Jesus said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. The words I say to you are not just my own, rather it is the Father living in me who is doing His work."
Now many would agree Jesus is the one and only true son of God, conceived of God's Spirit, born of a virgin, inheriting the righteousness of God with all the attributes of perfection attributed to the Father, and without sin or blemish. To Jesus alone has the title been credited: "The lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."
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