The Tribulation?

[keng]

This is a paper I have been working on, any comments would be welcome, thank you.

There are well-known scenarios based on Biblical prophecy concerning the Tribulation that is also called the time of Jacob's trouble from the Jewish perspective. These have been around for hundreds of years, I have been unable to find an exact date they were first proposed but in the 1800's John Darby caused a stir by suggesting there would be a Rapture of the Church prior to the Tribulation. The interpretation of Biblical prophecy concerning the Tribulation and other end time events were already accepted and stable concepts by Darby’s time but these prophetic events were cut and pasted to create various versions.

I would like to outline real events that are so closely aligned with these prophecies that one could claim the prophecies are fulfilled. Still, although I have spend three years studying this topic I am not ready to make such a declaration, but I am at this point amazed at the correlation.

The period called the Tribulation is a period of 7 years divided into two 3 ½ year segments. The first half is characterized by some form of decorum but the second half is called the Great Tribulation which is a period of extreme distress.

In 1933 Hitler came to power. There were factions prejudice against Jews but their influence was not sufficient to commit genocide. Jews had fought bravely for Germany during WW1 and had a strong national pride and many government officials valued this over the rhetoric from Hitler. It took steadily increasing Nazi measures to de-moralize and de-humanize the Jews. Jews were subjected to random violence, but the concentration camps were initially used against primarily non-Jewish political opponents and euthanasia against weak, feeble or dissident persons in the general population. It wasn’t until the implementation of the “final solution” these facilities became by the Nazi definition of a Jew almost exclusively Jewish.

Saul Friedlander states in Nazi Germany and the Jews, "the economic expropriation of the Jews of Germany could not be radically enforced before the beginning of 1938, after the conservative ministers had been expelled from the government. During 1938 worse than total expropriation was to follow: Economic harassment and even violence would henceforward be used to force the Jews to flee the Reich" Holocaust a History by Dwork and Jan van Pelt also places the turning point in German Jewish cultural society in 1938

 

[keng]

The Prelude to the Holocaust begins in 1938

April 22, 1938 (Nisan 21, 5698) 7th day of Passover - first of three Nazi decrees aimed at confiscation of property and in early June (Shavuot/First Fruits) an order by Heydrich on June 1st to all police districts to round up all Jews with a "criminal" record for labor camps. Ghettos were set up for the general Jewish population. Since 1933 German Jews had been developing support systems in schools and synagogues, so the move to ghettos provided at least an opportunity to live in a community free from harassment. Some Jews were being severely mistreated and summarily shot in smaller German cities but the main program was to move the Jews into ghettos, which became somewhat a safe haven for the Jews for a time. Throughout medieval Europe Jews had lived and actually prospered in ghettos.

3 1/2 years Confiscation of property, expulsion from public life to ghettos

October 1941 (Tishri 5702) Succot the killing of Jews picks up, first gassing of Jews using truck exhaust fumes during the time Succot, gas chambers begin in December

3 1/2 years Emigration halted, the "Final Solution" implemented through mass murder

March 29 to April 4, 1945 (Nisan 15 to 21, 5705) 7 days of Passover
Last "transport" arrives at Theresienstadt March 29, 1945
Extermination camps shut down during Passover 5705 by Russian and Allied troops


Points of Interest

In 1938 Jews were forced to wear a mark in order to even live let alone transact business.

The world population of Jews was 18 million in 1938, 6 million Jews were killed which was two thirds of the European Jewish population but one third of the world Jewish population.

There were three phases of Jewish emigration. First from Germany to other European countries when Hitler was elected in 1933, second primarily to the United States and Israel then called Palestine as a reaction to the Nurembug laws of 1935 and finally to any open country when the situation became desperate in 1938. The American Jewish Yearbook states 432,000 Jews emigrated from Germany from 1933 to 1940. When you compare the estimated numbers for each phase from other publications 144,000 is a reasonable estimate for each phase. 144,000 x 3 = 432,000. The number within this group who actually survived were primarily those who made it out of Europe, this number also can be estimated to be 144,000.

 

[keng]

Hitler as the anti-Christ proclaimed by the despicable German Christian cult of apostates.

From a 1937 German Christian work Nationalism and Positive Christianity: “Hitler is no merely national redeemer; he is a world savior. He is the chosen of God, the champion and representative of true Christianity. He is in the twentieth century the savior of the world standing on the brink of the abyss. If the world, if the people have ears to hear Hitler, then there can still be for them salvation and a new future; if not, then they will perish in blood and tears together with their religions, churches and civilizations.”

And an April 1937 conference of leading German Christians at Oberhausen declares that: “Hitler’s word is God’s law and thus has Divine authority in the shape of decrees and laws”.

Peace and peace treaty

The book The Speeches of Adolf Hitler shows that from approximately 1935 to 1938 his foreign policy speeches were dominated by references to peace. In September 1938 Neville Chamberlain was smitten with Hitler’s charismatic pronouncements and procured a worthless peace treaty. The war ended 7 years later, could Chamberlain have foreseen this was a treaty that would be broken in the middle?

One thousand years

The Third Reich was supposed to last one thousand years; it didn’t, but interestingly it brought a one thousand year Jewish era to a close. The book Holocaust a History by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan van Pelt states the following: “’The Thousand-Year history of the German Jews has come to an end,’ the scholar, Liberal rabbi, and teacher Leo Baeck announced to a meeting of Jewish communal organizations shortly after Hitler had come to power…Leo Baeck was correct. The thousand-year history of which he spoke had come to an end.”

This refers to the intellectual movement of the German Jews which began when Rabbenu Gershom ben Judah founded a yeshiva in Mainz, Germany around 980. Gershom attained great prominence himself but more importantly sparked a “Golden Age” of Biblical and Talmudic study. Rabbi Sholmo Yitzchaki, Rashi (RSY), was one of the early students. During the Middle Ages the Jews lived in Ghettos but they actually thrived intellectually. Isolation may well have been primarily due to the Jews desire to be separate more than as a result of prejudice against them. To the Jews in Germany this was truly a period of enlightenment and Rashi was in a sense an intellectual redeemer. At this time there were two earthquakes in Jerusalem, one destroying the first Muslim Mosque on the Temple Mount, another that split the scared rock over which the Mosque was built.

Grand Mufti goes to Hitler

On November 25 1941 Hitler welcomed the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem which is midway from April 1938 to March of 1945. On this occasion Hitler said to the Mufti that ”the German armies would in the course of this struggle reach the southern exit from Caucasia.” And as soon as that happened the Furher would on his own give the Arab world the assurance that its hour of liberation had arrived. Germany’s objective would then be solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection of the British power. (Documents on German Foreign Policy 1918-1945, Series D, Vol. XII no. 515).

Additional notes

Rev. 9:14-15 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay a third part of men.

Ancient Teutonic and Nordic beliefs were revived during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. These were a contributing factor to Nazi philosophy. One manifestation is the swastika which is an ancient symbol based on the four directions. An ancient Nordic legend stated that four dwarfs were stationed in each direction to hold up the sky. The symbol was associated with life and peace, Hitler is reported to have acknowledged that reversing it meant death and war.

In Revelation chapter 7 we are told of four angels standing on the four corners of the earth who are told to wait until 144,00 of all the tribes of the children of Israel are sealed. After this there is a great multitude of all nations and kindreds standing before the Lamb. And in verse 14 we are told "These are they which came out of the great tribulation". Also we are told they have suffered heat stroke are hungry and thirsty and God shall wipe the tears from their eyes. This could be a good description of those who were in the Nazi labor camps and found themselves entering eternity.

Chapter 13 of Revelation seems full of symbolism, Hitler, also, has a symbolic side. Most of his associates were into German mythology and runic mysteries. There are several books on this topic. A comment noted from one is, "Hitler was a major practicioner of sympathetic magic; in other words, he did highly symbolic things in hopes of bringing about the actions or effects they represented." Research on this topic is not yet completed by the writer, however it is clear that the religious influence in National Socialism is an early form of Wicca. From the Teutonic Order one example of many is Eckart the editor of In Plain German who as a member of the society’s inner circle expected the appearance of a German messiah who could fuse politics and religion into a crusade against the ideals of the Christian world.

 

[Wildfire]

I am interested in what you are saying, I have always felt that the holocaust was significent in prophecy. Notice that the fifth seal has a dual effect; if the tribulation is marked by the fifth seal, and it is the holocaust of of WWII, then it will happen again.
Rev 6:9 and when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the alter the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white roes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Chapter 7 speaks of those who came out of the tribulation, in white robes:
They shall hunger nomore, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, or any heat.

 

[Pericles]

Wildfire,

Why are you quoting bible passages out of their context?  How exactly were the Jews killed by Hitler "for the word of God?"

So, let me get this straight.  Your logic is that since Hitler was already defeated, since he was the antichrist, it means that Christ already returned after WWII? 

 

[Rize]

Today at 06:24 AM Wildfire said this in Post #4

I am interested in what you are saying, I have always felt that the holocaust was significent in prophecy. Notice that the fifth seal has a dual effect; if the tribulation is marked by the fifth seal, and it is the holocaust of of WWII, then it will happen again.
Rev 6:9 and when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the alter the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white roes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Chapter 7 speaks of those who came out of the tribulation, in white robes:
They shall hunger nomore, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, or any heat.

Look at Revelation 179-11.  John seems to say that 5 beast empires have already come, one is now, and one more will come.  Then the beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king.

Each beast empire was a great persecutor of Jews.  Daniel helps us identify beast empires 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7/8.  1 and 2 are identifiable by history.

They are (apparently):

1) Egyptian
2) Assyrian
3) Babylonian
4) Medo-Persian
5) Greek
6) Roman
7) German (Hitler)
8) AC's empire

Now, the AC is supposed to be one of the previous beast empire rulers resurrected.  He was supposed to have been killed by a head wound.  People will apparently recognize him as well.  If all of that is understood correctly (and that is a significant if) that makes Hitler the Anti-Christ (but he won't resume that roll until he is resurrected).

Whoever he is, he is supposed to start amassing world power by taking over (somehow) 3 nations/ethnic groups and eventually get control over 10 nations before revealing himself at the midpoint of the tribulation.

Imagine how easy it would be for Hitler, being resurrected, to simply have a full beard.  No one would recognize him.  Then at the "revealing" of hte man of lawlessness (mid-trib), he could shave it into his trademark and become instantly recognizable.

It's sounds unbelievable, but Van Kampan makes, at least, a potential case for it (see The Sign ).

 

[Wildfire]

Pericles, No I don't believe Hitler was the antichrist spoken of in revelation, nor do I believe that Christ has returned. I did not take the bible out of contex; if you will read my post you will see that I wrote: 1) this topic was interesting and 2) <IF> the tribulation <<was>> the holocaust, then there is a dual effect of time because seal (5) shows that those who were killed, are crying out to God (how long must we wait--before our blood is avenged on them who still dwell on the earth!) they are told "a little season" until their brethren and fellowservants should be killed AS THEY WERE.

I don't believe Hitler will ever return to this present world, he was a terrible man who is long dead. However, that timeline of massive killing is the worst ever witnessed by this world. And IF that is not part of the intended future tribulation, God have mercy on all of us. Because the tribulation will be the persecution of the CHRISTIANS.

 

[Pericles]

Wildfire,

What is "dual effect of time"?

 

[Rize]

26th February 2003 at 03:18 PM Wildfire said this in Post #7

Pericles, No I don't believe Hitler was the antichrist spoken of in revelation, nor do I believe that Christ has returned. I did not take the bible out of contex; if you will read my post you will see that I wrote: 1) this topic was interesting and 2) <IF>the tribulation &lt;<WAS>&gt; the holocaust, then there is a dual effect of time because seal (5) shows that those who were killed, are crying out to God (how long must we wait--before our blood is avenged on them who still dwell on the earth!) they are told "a little season" until their brethren and fellowservants should be killed AS THEY WERE.

I don't believe Hitler will ever return to this present world, he was a terrible man who is long dead. However, that timeline of massive killing is the worst ever witnessed by this world. And IF that is not part of the intended future tribulation, God have mercy on all of us. Because the tribulation will be the persecution of the CHRISTIANS.

The tribulation will be a persecution of Jews and Christians.&nbsp; Just look at the book of Daniel.

But yeah, the whole Hitler thing seems impossible.&nbsp; I'm wondering if Van Kampen didn't get a little to over analytical there.

 

[Wildfire]

Hi Pericles, it feels strange to explain my own words, but I'll try! The dual effect of time, in accordance with the fifth seal (means) that there seems to be a <now> and >later event, to fulfill the prophecy.
And time is indicated by the souls who are under the alter (in a safe place/close to God) who cry out "how long must we wait!" and they are told "a little season" until their BRETHREN and FELLOWSERVANTS SHOULD BE KILLED AS THEY WERE.
So, what has happened to them must happen again, and time is involved.

Was/is it the holocaust? only God knows, but it is terrible. Many believe that the tribulation lasts only for seven years (someone please refresh me on this) by the words of Daniel. But that doesn't agree with this seal; because the opening of the fifth seal is outcry/pain of the great tribulation, we can see that in the following chapter. (ch 7)

We don't know how long in (years) the fifth seal lasts; but we are told:
1) it is the protest of those in tribulation who were slain for the word of God
2) they are told to rest/wait for a little season
3) UNTIL their fellowservants and brethren should be killed, AS THEY WERE.

 

[keng]

There is more to this and the comparisons can be elaborate upon but perhaps there are two aspects that can contribute to our understanding. First, that real events will happen that will fulfill prophecy, these things are not a farfetched dream. Secondly, something that is not part of this section in the forums which is that we must not drift from a holy doctrine as happened in Germany.

 

[Pericles]

Yesterday at 07:33 AM Wildfire said this in Post #10

Hi Pericles, it feels strange to explain my own words, but I'll try! The dual effect of time, in accordance with the fifth seal (means) that there seems to be a <NOW>and &gt;later event, to fulfill the prophecy.&nbsp;

This doesn't make any sense...a "now and a later event to fulfill the prophecy?"&nbsp;

 

[ephod]

.
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[keng]

Perhaps some sort of comparison could be made to the Holy Roman Empire through the Hapsburgs, or pre-WWII Prussia, Germany, Austria or Bavaria as an entity that was and is not and yet is? But at this point it doesn't jump out from the pages of an encyclopedia. The points I have made are from a personal study, is there some other resource that has made similar observations?