The tree

[radhead]

Why are there so many similarities between the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the message of Jesus?

Jesus compares himself to a tree, and we are to abide in him.

In Genesis, it said that the eyes of the man and woman "were opened" after eating from the tree.

Jesus came to open the eyes of the blind.

***

In Genesis, it seems as if God is trying to control the people in a world that he created, but that he doesn't want his children to grow up and think on their own.

It almost seems like a controlling parent. It is very Freudian. Freud believed that God represented our parents. Most people desire that type of authority figure to tell them what to do, even after they have supposedly "grown up".

I wonder if the people who wrote these stories in the Bible understood this (psychologically), and they were hiding the truth in parables.

 

[mindlight]

Why are there so many similarities between the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the message of Jesus?

Jesus compares himself to a tree, and we are to abide in him.

In Genesis, it said that the eyes of the man and woman "were opened" after eating from the tree.

Jesus came to open the eyes of the blind.

***

In Genesis, it seems as if God is trying to control the people in a world that he created, but that he doesn't want his children to grow up and think on their own.

It almost seems like a controlling parent. It is very Freudian. Freud believed that God represented our parents. Most people desire that type of authority figure to tell them what to do, even after they have supposedly "grown up".

I wonder if the people who wrote these stories in the Bible understood this (psychologically), and they were hiding the truth in parables.

Similarities?

Jesus was compared to a Vine not an apple tree. Think you are comparing apples and grapes.

Darkness and therefore blindness came into the world by sin. Jesus made choices to undo the effects of Adams bad choice.

Again apples and grapes!

 

[radhead]

I just think it's strange how "knowledge of good and evil" is seen as a bad thing. I know that Christ represents life. But it seems that Christians are more focuses on judging others, by using their knowledge of good and evil. It seems like they are everything Jesus warned against. I just feel that Christianity is not a true representation of the Bible's message. I believe the New Testament writers understood everything in the Old Testament. But I don't think many religious people do. That's my opinion.

 

[Alla27]

In Genesis, it seems as if God is trying to control the people in a world that he created, but that he doesn't want his children to grow up and think on their own.
It almost seems like a controlling parent. It is very Freudian. Freud believed that God represented our parents. Most people desire that type of authority figure to tell them what to do, even after they have supposedly "grown up".

Is this a bad thing when a parent "controls" child's first steps? Does a child really need this kind of help(control)?

Why are there so many similarities between the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the message of Jesus?
Jesus compares himself to a tree, and we are to abide in him.
In Genesis, it said that the eyes of the man and woman "were opened" after eating from the tree.
Jesus came to open the eyes of the blind.

You are such a deep thinker. I really enjoy reading your thoughts. I believe God is smiling while He has tender feelings towards you( His child).
I am not sure if I agree or disagree but it is because I have to ponder about what you said.

 

[Alla27]

Similarities?
Jesus was compared to a Vine not an apple tree. Think you are comparing apples and grapes.

I didn't know that tree of knowledge of good and evil has something to do with apples.

Darkness and therefore blindness came into the world by sin.

Not according to the Bible. KNOWLEDGE of good and evil came with disobedience. Eyes were opened, not closed.
men became like gods knowing good and evil. To become like Gods is a good thing and not a bad thing ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE.

Jesus made choices to undo the effects of Adams bad choice.
Again apples and grapes!

So, Jesus will take away KNOWLEDGE of good and evil from mankind?

 

[Alla27]

I just think it's strange how "knowledge of good and evil" is seen as a bad thing. I know that Christ represents life. But it seems that Christians are more focuses on judging others, by using their knowledge of good and evil. It seems like they are everything Jesus warned against. I just feel that Christianity is not a true representation of the Bible's message. I believe the New Testament writers understood everything in the Old Testament. But I don't think many religious people do. That's my opinion.

I agree with your opinion.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi again Radhead, I don't think the "knowledge of good and evil" is seen as a bad thing, disobeying God is however (as it led our first parents away from Him to both physical and spiritual death, something that was not previously part of our realm or ever meant to be). Knowing good is never a problem, but "knowing" evil is what they were to avoid .. "knowing" [יָדַע / yadaʿ] here meaning in the sense of experiencing it personally, not just knowing "about" it or understanding the difference between good/evil, which they certainly did prior to being personally involved in it.

Yours and His,
David

 

[Alla27]

Hi again Radhead, I don't think the "knowledge of good and evil" is seen as a bad thing, disobeying God is however (as it led our first parents away from Him to both physical and spiritual death, something that was not previously part of our realm or ever meant to be). Knowing good is never a problem, but "knowing" evil is what they were to avoid .. "knowing" [יָדַע / yadaʿ] here meaning in the sense of experiencing it personally, not just knowing "about" it or understanding the difference between good/evil, which they certainly did prior to being personally involved in it.

Yours and His,
David

Is becoming like Gods knowing both good and evil a bad thing?
How did Gods learn about good and EVIL? The Bible claims: from Their personal experience. They know it from personal experience and looks like we have to do the same.
P.S. I am just concluding this from reading the Bible.

 

[radhead]

Hi again Radhead, I don't think the "knowledge of good and evil" is seen as a bad thing, disobeying God is however (as it led our first parents away from Him to both physical and spiritual death, something that was not previously part of our realm or ever meant to be). Knowing good is never a problem, but "knowing" evil is what they were to avoid .. "knowing" [יָדַע / yadaʿ] here meaning in the sense of experiencing it personally, not just knowing "about" it or understanding the difference between good/evil, which they certainly did prior to being personally involved in it.

Yours and His,
David

But maybe the phrase "knowledge of good and evil" was supposed to be ironic or even amusing. We are warned against judging. As we judge, so we are judged ourselves. What offends us reflects exactly what is inside of us. But that describes Christianity perfectly, which is all about judging.

It also describes the Pharisees. And I think it was with humor that Jesus called them "experts of the law".

 

[St_Worm2]

But maybe the phrase "knowledge of good and evil" was supposed to be ironic or even amusing. We are warned against judging. As we judge, so we are judged ourselves. What offends us reflects exactly what is inside of us. But that describes Christianity perfectly, which is all about judging.

It also describes the Pharisees. And I think it was with humor that Jesus called them "experts of the law".

Hi Radhead, we Christians are called to be discerning of good/evil to be sure (i.e. Matthew 7:6; John 7:24), but hypocritical judgment is certainly sinful and we are 1) commanded to avoid it all together and 2) told what the consequences will be if we do not (Matthew 7:1-5).

I'm sorry to leave the OP for a moment and head down a rabbit trail, but please elaborate a bit on why you believe the hypocritical form of judgment perfectly describes Christianity. Also, do you mean "Christianity" itself, "Christians", or both?

Thanks!

--David

 

[radhead]

Hi Radhead, we Christians are called to be discerning of good/evil to be sure (i.e. Matthew 7:6; John 7:24), but hypocritical judgment is certainly sinful and we are 1) commanded to avoid it all together and 2) told what the consequences will be if we do not (Matthew 7:1-5).

I'm sorry to leave the OP for a moment and head down a rabbit trail, but please elaborate a bit on why you believe the hypocritical form of judgment perfectly describes Christianity. Also, do you mean "Christianity" itself, "Christians", or both?

Thanks!

--David

I don't think that Christians understand the difference between good and evil. When the New Testament talks about the things of "this world" it is referring to the religious world. Combined with the love of money, which seems to be very connected to that. Christians value money, just as the Pharisees did. That self-righteous attitude and desire for money is actually evil.

The Christian church is declaring itself to be the representation of God to the people, and is extracting money from the people with psychological intimidation.

 

[bling]

I just think it's strange how "knowledge of good and evil" is seen as a bad thing. I know that Christ represents life. But it seems that Christians are more focuses on judging others, by using their knowledge of good and evil. It seems like they are everything Jesus warned against. I just feel that Christianity is not a true representation of the Bible's message. I believe the New Testament writers understood everything in the Old Testament. But I don't think many religious people do. That's my opinion.

“Knowledge” in and of itself is not bad or good, but it is something humans desire to have. While in the Garden prior to sin Adam and Eve did not need knowledge of “Good and Evil”, but that does not mean they were like naive little children. They had only one way to be disobedient and that was enough.

 

[St_Worm2]

I don't think that Christians understand the difference between good and evil.

We all understand the difference between right and wrong, Christians and non-Christians alike (save the mentally infirmed, psychopaths/sociopaths, etc.), as we are born with an innate sense of such, so please tell me what led you to believe that "Christians", in general, do not have consciences. You continue:

When the New Testament talks about the things of "this world" it is referring to the religious world.

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Here are some of the ways the Bible describes the things of "this world", and the Bible is clear that we (Christians AND everyone else) are to avoid them.

"The deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Galatians 5:19-21

"Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever." 1 John 2:15-17​

These things do not characterize Christianity or true Christians, rather, they characterize the "world" and its value system. If these things characterize some who call themselves "Christian", then they have either 1) fallen to temptation, are sinning, and need to repent or 2) they were never Christians to begin with, their "claim" of such being nothing more than that, a "claim". You continue:

Combined with the love of money, which seems to be very connected to that. Christians value money, just as the Pharisees did. That self-righteous attitude and desire for money is actually evil.

I'm still not sure what evil you are saying Christians, in general, are guilty of, and now you are adding to that, "the love of money". So please enlighten me

Also, I assume that by "value money", you mean that Christians do so in an excessive/evil manner. What evidence do you have to back that statement up, evidence that demonstrates that Christians, in general, are both selfish and greedy*, especially when compared to the rest of the world *(Please don't try to use TV prosperity preachers as your example as they and their worldwide congregations makeup far less than 1% of all those who claim to be Christians, so they hardly define the lot of us and are, in fact, an embarrassment to most of us when they say much of what they do about the pursuit of money)

The Christian church is declaring itself to be the representation of God to the people, and is extracting money from the people with psychological intimidation.

Really? The OT describes the giving of a tenth. The same requirement does not exist in the NT, and church members in America today give, on average, less than 2% of their net income to the church. And non-Christians/non-members give almost nothing at all. What you said is not consistent with the facts that we know, so on what basis are you bringing this charge against us

Also, please show us where the church has "declared" itself to be the representation of God to the people.

My general point in reply to your post is this, you can spit out words to see where they splatter all day long, but what evidence can you offer us that any of the accusations you've just made are true

Thanks!

--David

 

[radhead]

These things do not characterize Christianity or true Christians, rather, they characterize the "world" and its value system. If these things characterize some who call themselves "Christian", then they have either 1) fallen to temptation, are sinning, and need to repent or 2) they were never Christians to begin with, their "claim" of such being nothing more than that, a "claim".

I'm not sure what you mean.

In other words, what do you say about the people who don't practice those things, but who show the fruits of the spirit. And yet, they are not Christian believers. They might even be atheists. Are they still a part of the "world" even if they show fruits of the spirit, as Paul calls them?

 

[radhead]

Really? The OT describes the giving of a tenth. The same requirement does not exist in the NT, and church members in America today give, on average, less than 2% of their net income to the church. And non-Christians/non-members give almost nothing at all. What you said is not consistent with the facts that we know, so on what basis are you bringing this charge against us

I would be surprised to find any Christian church who did not use the fear of God in order to ask their members for tithes or offerings of some kind. They are always saying, "It all belongs to God anyway", and things like that.

In fact the churches who do use those techniques tend to be the more conservative/orthodox ones.

 

[St_Worm2]

I would be surprised to find any Christian church who did not use the fear of God in order to ask their members for tithes or offerings of some kind.

Hi Radhead, the church I now belong to, the Evangelical Free Church, doesn't even "pass the plate" during services. There's a box in back (which is never mentioned during our services) to which anyone in attendance can leave an offering or a gift as they feel led to do so by the Lord (2 Corinthians 9:6-7). And in my 29+ years of being a Christian and regularly attending services at various Catholic and Protestant churches, I have heard a grand total of two sermons concerning giving to the church and no threat has ever been made.

We are given the opportunity to give above and beyond what we "tithe" 4-5 times a year however, "gifts" to help the poor or to further support our missionaries, things like that, but no intimidation is ever applied, only an explanation of the need so we know what our gifts will be used for.

God does make "promises" to us concerning giving however (i.e. - Proverbs 3:9-10; Malachi 3:10; 2 Corinthians 9:6)

Surprise

Now, unless you actually have something constructive to offer, please stop making accusations which have no basis in fact!!

Yours and His,
David

"Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart,
not grudgingly or under compulsion,
for God loves a cheerful giver."
2 Corinthians 9:7​

 

[St_Worm2]

...what do you say about the people who don't practice those things, but who show the fruits of the spirit. And yet, they are not Christian believers. They might even be atheists. Are they still a part of the "world" even if they show fruits of the spirit, as Paul calls them?

Hi Radhead, I was referring specifically to those who claim to be "Christians", but are not (i.e. - Matthew 7:22-23; Matthew 13:24-30; James 2:14-26). Anyone can claim to be a Christian, but if someone makes such a claim, yet remains unchanged (John 3:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10) and continues to live a lifestyle reminiscent of the one they lived prior to making that claim then, according to the Bible, their's is a "dead" faith .. which is really no "faith" at all (James 2:14-26).

Sorry for all the Scripture references, but my point involved those who "claim" to be Christians.

Can non-Christians be "moral" people according to the world's standard of a "moral" person? Sure But do they obey God's will specifically to please Him? The answer: No, because it's impossible to chose to obey Someone you don't even know.

Do they truly love Him? Do they want to be with Him and worship Him for an eternity? Do they believe they are helpless to save themselves by any good they may do in this life, and that their only hope of redemption and chance to be with God in the afterlife rests solely upon the work that Christ did on our behalf (which is the only basis for God's gracious choice to save us)?

Leading a moral life is an admirable trait to be sure, but that alone does not a Christian make!

Yours and His,
David

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi Radhead, the church I now belong to, the Evangelical Free Church, doesn't even "pass the plate" during services. There's a box in back (which is never mentioned during our services) to which anyone in attendance can leave an offering or a gift as they feel led to do so by the Lord (2 Corinthians 9:6-7). And in my 29+ years of being a Christian and regularly attending services at various Catholic and Protestant churches, I have heard a grand total of two sermons concerning giving to the church and no threat has ever been made.

We are given the opportunity to give above and beyond what we "tithe" 4-5 times a year however, "gifts" to help the poor or to further support our missionaries, things like that, but no intimidation is ever applied, only an explanation of the need so we know what our gifts will be used for.

God does make "promises" to us concerning giving however (i.e. - Proverbs 3:9-10; Malachi 3:10; 2 Corinthians 9:6)

Surprise

Now, unless you actually have something constructive to offer, please stop making accusations which have no basis in fact!!

Yours and His,
David

"Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart,
not grudgingly or under compulsion,
for God loves a cheerful giver."
2 Corinthians 9:7​

Hi Radhead, one last thing, since some of your assumptions about the church have clearly been wrong, why not come join us and see what actually goes on in various churches for yourself. You may find that you're surprised about a lot more things

Yours and His,
David

 

[radhead]

Hi Radhead, one last thing, since some of your assumptions about the church have clearly been wrong, why not come join us and see what actually goes on in various churches for yourself. You may find that you're surprised about a lot more things

Yours and His,
David

I know what you are saying. Actually, I know that most people are good regardless of what church they belong to or what doctrines are taught at their church. But it seems to me that if I were to attend and support (financially) a certain church where I didn't agree with their doctrine, then I would be a hypocrite due to my putting money towards spreading a message I didn't agree with. Does that make sense?

 

[St_Worm2]

I know what you are saying. Actually, I know that most people are good regardless of what church they belong to or what doctrines are taught at their church. But it seems to me that if I were to attend and support (financially) a certain church where I didn't agree with their doctrine, then I would be a hypocrite due to my putting money towards spreading a message I didn't agree with. Does that make sense?

Oh sure, but that isn't what I meant. I just thought you might want to learn more about Christian churches in person, how we operate, what we are really teaching, those kind of things. As far as "giving/support" goes, that's something that Christians who are members of churches typically do (and even some of those don't give anything, or much of anything ). Visitors and seekers rarely if ever give or support a church, and they should never be expected to. In fact, if you ever do go to a church and feel pressured to give anything, I'd leave immediately and go find another church.

Yours and His,
David