The Tree and it's Fruits, the Toronto Blessing?

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Wesley's revival had some unusual manifestations, holy rolling... and the fruits are clear in hindsight. What are they?
And the Toronto Blessing is now decades old. What are the fruits to observe and determine the nature of this tree? According to Jesus, you can tell a tree by it's fruit.
Out of this movement I have been inspired and set free from a whole area of sin. One lady we prayed for, said she had no more pain. Some find holy rolling... offensive.

What say you?

Dave L · May 20, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Wesley's revival had some unusual manifestations, holy rolling... and the fruits are clear in hindsight. What are they?
And the Toronto Blessing is now decades old. What are the fruits to observe and determine the nature of this tree? According to Jesus, you can tell a tree by it's fruit.
Out of this movement I have been inspired and set free from a whole area of sin. One lady we prayed for, said she had no more pain. Some find holy rolling... offensive.

What say you?

Part of the great falling away?

yeshuaslavejeff · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Part of the great falling away?

Toronto? Yes. Fellowships worldwide were broken by those errors,
, disrupted, deceived by it..... (according to many testimonies online exposing the errors)

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Part of the great falling away?

The great falling away would involve people leaving church or becoming bound into pornography in large numbers, "in their droves" or no longer worshipping the Holy Trinity, at least in some way becoming cold hearted... The Toronto Blessing boasted stories of half hearted people becoming hot for God the Holy Trinity and made new converts even though the focus was on people who already had faith, being healed and equipped for service as children of God.

The great falling away has to be among those already converted. Their children. But in the same Spirit CFAN has made tens of millions of converts from Islam and paganism in Africa... the Toronto Blessing made converts directly and indirectly, people who see there should be something more rather than cessationist church one a week still attend church because of this move. Global Awakening competes with new age appeal for the youth as well.

Dave L · May 20, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
The great falling away would involve people leaving church or becoming bound into pornography in large numbers, "in their droves" or no longer worshipping the Holy Trinity, at least in some way becoming cold hearted... The Toronto Blessing boasted stories of half hearted people becoming hot for God the Holy Trinity and made new converts even though the focus was on people who already had faith, being healed and equipped for service as children of God.

The great falling away has to be among those already converted. Their children. But in the same Spirit CFAN has made tens of millions of converts from Islam and paganism in Africa... the Toronto Blessing made converts directly and indirectly, people who see there should be something more rather than cessationist church one a week still attend church because of this move. Global Awakening competes with new age appeal for the youth as well.

Abandoning the faith which is what happens when we ignore scripture and chase after "knock offs" of gifts that passed into history with the apostles.

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Toronto? Yes. Fellowships worldwide were broken by those errors,
, disrupted, deceived by it..... (according to many testimonies online exposing the errors)

What are those errors, where are they published? Were these from the headship or the fringes? I experienced nasty fringe elements along the side of this blessing.

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Abandoning the faith which is what happens when we ignore scripture and chase after "knock offs" of gifts that passed into history with the apostles.

But Dave, the gifts are not only revived among protestants, the Catholic church dating back to the first century Rome holds them to have continued. So how by continuation can it be said that continuationists are falling away?

Love is at the centre of scripture and the Toronto Blessing.

Millions of people come to worship the Holy Trinity because of these gifts. Do new Burkina Faso converts fall away as they become Christians? If you look into it, how they live, and suffer persecution in and yet stay in the fold?

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

It is said the church was born by the seed of the blood of the martyrs. I am sure their courage inspired people, but it would have gone better if they had been left at peace. We lost the gifts I would say due to persecution, not the death of the apostles.

In regards to the Toronto Blessing, Chevreau writes about past revivals, high joy, and third century healing rallies. Also the immediate fruits of healings... What became of these fruits to be tested by Jesus as real fruit?

I think the old Catholic church was struck down but the deaths of so many of the faithful leaders, their children and then for Rome to be turned Christian by the Emperor himself overburdened a small remnant of the true faithful. The conversions were not far enough in. The popes that followed were not always in the true Spirit.

Dave L · May 20, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
But Dave, the gifts are not only revived among protestants, the Catholic church dating back to the first century Rome holds them to have continued. So how by continuation can it be said that continuationists are falling away?

Love is at the centre of scripture and the Toronto Blessing.

Millions of people come to worship the Holy Trinity because of these gifts. Do new Burkina Faso converts fall away as they become Christians? If you look into it, how they live, and suffer persecution in and yet stay in the fold?

If you place scripture above human claims of having the gifts, the gifts expired with the apostles. Meaning today's claims are for "knock-off" gifts and not the originals.

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
If you place scripture above human claims of having the gifts, the gifts expired with the apostles. Meaning today's claims are for "knock-off" gifts and not the originals.

I understand this is an old argument, that there are real gifts and that today's are only the flesh or something. CFAN uses them successfully across Nigeria and Burkina Faso... Sadly I have seen how intense the terrorism is against these people. They are real converts. They worship, they give, they have joy...

Dave L · May 20, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
I understand this is an old argument, that there are real gifts and that today's are only the flesh or something. CFAN uses them successfully across Nigeria and Burkina Faso... Sadly I have seen how intense the terrorism is against these people. They are real converts. They worship, they give, they have joy...

In the end times there will be lying signs and wonders. But Jesus will tell many who claim such to depart from him, he never knew them.

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
In the end times there will be lying signs and wonders. But Jesus will tell many who claim such to depart from him, he never knew them.

Lying spirits are Satan who will not fight himself or serve God. So the fruits and the quality of the converts and especially their conversion testimony is everything. A shortage of good follow up and converts can go wrong and even fall away.

Dave L · May 20, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Lying spirits are Satan who will not fight himself or serve God. So the fruits and the quality of the converts and especially their conversion testimony is everything. A shortage of good follow up and converts can go wrong and even fall away.

But if the gifts are phony, who is behind them?

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
But if the gifts are phony, who is behind them?

Reinhard Bonnke and Daniel Kolenda would have to make them up, and lead hundreds of thousands of people at a time into a conversion prayer and worship of the Holy Trinity and study of the NKJV and NIV Bibles... using phony gifts of healing, knowledge and prophecy, for unknown motives since since they do not seem to prosper or get anything out of it for themselves out of the ordinary.

Dave L · May 20, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Reinhard Bonnke and Daniel Kolenda would have to make them up, and lead hundreds of thousands of people at a time into a conversion prayer and worship of the Holy Trinity and study of the NKJV and NIV Bibles... using phony gifts of healing, knowledge and prophecy, for unknown motives since since they do not seem to prosper or get anything out of it for themselves out of the ordinary.

People take the genuine miracles provided thorough the prayer of faith, and try to sell "knock-off" gifts claiming they were the source. Listen to scripture. Stop chasing rumors and claims that have no scriptural basis.

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
People take the genuine miracles provided thorough the prayer of faith, and try to sell "knock-off" gifts claiming they were the source. Listen to scripture. Stop chasing rumors and claims that have no scriptural basis.

How does this work, can you site and example? Or just give one? One case study? All mentioned here listen to the scripture. Are you saying CFAN is only rumoured to have counted 70,000,000 converts? This can't be tested?

Brian Mcnamee · May 20, 2019

HI if you look today at Copeland and the things he is teaching you can see he was trying to form the global one world religion and endorses a guy named Tony Palmer and prayers for his success in unifying the protestants churches with Rome. Palmer died shortly after this. Another scriptural evidence is that false teaches are associated with covetousness. #1 on richest pastors is Copeland # 5 Duplantis.

Top 15 Richest and most Successful Pastors In the World (We promise that #1 will shock you)

Dave L · May 20, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
How does this work, can you site and example? Or just give one? One case study? All mentioned here listen to the scripture. Are you saying CFAN is only rumoured to have counted 70,000,000 converts? This can't be tested?

If you understand the prayer of faith, it does the job but phony gifts get the credit.

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Brian Mcnamee said:
HI if you look today at Copeland and the things he is teaching you can see he was trying to form the global one world religion and endorses a guy named Tony Palmer and prayers for his success in unifying the protestants churches with Rome. Palmer died shortly after this. Another scriptural evidence is that false teaches are associated with covetousness. #1 on richest pastors is Copeland # 5 Duplantis.

Top 15 Richest and most Successful Pastors In the World (We promise that #1 will shock you)

Church unity is a good idea, much better than infighting. And Copeland has always said he believes in prosperous living. It is a Bible promise to the reverential like Joseph in Egypt. People who give to his ministry know this. Some of his possessions are used for service and recreation, like a car.

Coveting means wanting something that is not your to have.

GoldenKingGaze · May 20, 2019

Dave L said:
If you understand the prayer of faith, it does the job but phony gifts get the credit.

It would be good if you could look into Bonnke and Kolenda and quote prayers to contrast with their phony gifts and make an example.

The Tree and it's Fruits, the Toronto Blessing?

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Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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