The Trade War with China

[mindlight]

The US tariff war with the rest of the world has highlighted the rise of Chinese trade dominance and the destruction of competitors by Chinese companies worldwide.

The Chinese strategy has been :

1. steal the design
2. reverse engineer the design
3. mass produce in home market and build up corporate presence there
   go international:
4. destroy local competition with subsidized goods
5. raise prices and profits when locals destroyed
6. Buy up competitor firms with profits made

The Western world has been remarkably blind to this strategy and done little to counter it. Now many fear it might be too late for a great many industries. But the USA has the economic weight to take on China and is now doing so in an effort to re-shore jobs and industry. It is doing this for entirely selfish reasons but it raises the question of how Europe should also be dealing with China.

Can Trump break Chinese dominance or is it already too late?
What should America's allies be doing for their part in this trade war?
Should they stay aligned with the USA or adopt their own approach? Should Europe impose a similar tariff regime on competitors and develop a regional self-sufficiency or stay globalized in their outlook?

The consideration here is that in many cases Chinese products help keep prices low for the poorest members of a society versus the destruction of local jobs and industries that often results. Can we avoid a strategic overdependence on China and the wholesale massacre of local industries without losing out on the obvious advantages of trading with this massive and growing market?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Walmart perfected #4 & #5 long before China.

 

[mindlight]

Walmart perfected #4 & #5 long before China.

Not in Europe they didn't. The difference is that China is doing this globally also not just locally. The days have long gone when American companies like Ford are competitive in the European market.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Not in Europe they didn't. The difference is that China is doing this globally also not just locally.

Why would someone pay $2500.00 for a German made chainsaw when they can get a Chinese version in the exact color scheme and a slight difference in the spelling for a hundred bucks. Probably just as good.

 

[Laodicean60]

It is doing this for entirely selfish reasons but it raises the question of how Europe should also be dealing with China.

You're darn right, as should all countries. If the EU wants to war with Russia or China and God forbid both, do you think you have the manufacturing capacity to replace lost equipment? The USA doesn't, so I'm assuming you guys don't, and the sad thing is we've known this since 2010.

how Europe should also be dealing with China.

I'll play prophet: Some countries might kiss up to them because of your energy woes; the EU shouldn't have gone all in with their "enemy." Sadly, German deindustrialization is happening because of their energy woes.

It is doing this for entirely selfish reasons but it raises the question of how Europe should also be dealing with China.

It may be selfish to some, but I see a national security issue, and the USA wants strong partners in NATO also, thus the talk of military spending for all these years.

The consideration here is that in many cases Chinese products help keep prices low for the poorest members of a society versus the destruction of local jobs and industries that often results. Can we avoid a strategic overdependence on China and the wholesale massacre of local industries without losing out on the obvious advantages of trading with this massive and growing market?

What you are seeing today is a global economic realignment, and it's going to be hard on the people of all nations. If you can come up with intelligent questions, I'm sure your leaders are asking themselves similar questions. We'll see in the future, but I can tell you this: it's not about Trump.
I use an analogy of puppies hanging on mamas dog's (Russia/ China) tit and the puppies now are the USA/ EU.

One of those questions is: Will we be able to fight a sustained war with China or Russia? I've watched the West's arrogance throughout the years in that we think we can dictate whatever we want with Russia or China, and we are still doing it.

 

[mindlight]

You're darn right, as should all countries. If the EU wants to war with Russia or China and God forbid both, do you think you have the manufacturing capacity to replace lost equipment? The USA doesn't, so I'm assuming you guys don't, and the sad thing is we've known this since 2010.

I'll play prophet: Some countries might kiss up to them because of your energy woes; the EU shouldn't have gone all in with their "enemy." Sadly, German deindustrialization is happening because of their energy woes.

It may be selfish to some, but I see a national security issue, and the USA wants strong partners in NATO also, thus the talk of military spending for all these years.

What you are seeing today is a global economic realignment, and it's going to be hard on the people of all nations. If you can come up with intelligent questions, I'm sure your leaders are asking themselves similar questions. We'll see in the future, but I can tell you this: it's not about Trump.
I use an analogy of puppies hanging on mamas dog's (Russia/ China) tit and the puppies now are the USA/ EU.

One of those questions is: Will we be able to fight a sustained war with China or Russia? I've watched the West's arrogance throughout the years in that we think we can dictate whatever we want with Russia or China, and we are still doing it.

German manufacturing remains strong with high quality globally competitive products. We run trade surpluses because we are so good and people want our stuff. Where are the stats for deindustrialization? This seems like Russian propaganda or Republican wishful thinking

Germany Manufacturing Output 1991-2025 | MacroTrends

Manufacturing refers to industries belonging to ISIC divisions 15-37. Value added is the net output of a sector after adding up all outputs and subtracting intermediate inputs. It is calculated without making deductions for depreciation of fabricated assets or depletion and degradation of...

www.macrotrends.net

 

[Laodicean60]

German manufacturing remains strong with high quality globally competitive products. We run trade surpluses because we are so good and people want our stuff.

I agree that Germany is a manufacturing engine for the EU, sort of like California or Texas is for the USA.

Where are the stats for deindustrialization?

I don't have stats, but I do have headlines. I try to keep up with economics, especially global, because we are globally synchronised.

German Deindustrialization Is A Wake-Up Call For U.S. Manufacturers

The woes of BASF and many other manufacturers in Germany due to government energy policies should have American industry taking notice.

www.forbes.com

Germany faces deindustrialization amid investment outflows: IW

Germany faces deindustrialization amid investment outflows: IW-

english.news.cn

Europe’s economic engine is stalling: Germany deindustrializes

The decline of the Continent’s largest economy will send shudders across the EU’s already polarized political landscape.

www.politico.eu

This seems like Russian propaganda or Republican wishful thinking

Why would anyone want to see Germany fall? Is this how bad the hate has gotten in politics?

 

[mindlight]

I agree that Germany is a manufacturing engine for the EU, sort of like California or Texas is for the USA.

I don't have stats, but I do have headlines. I try to keep up with economics, especially global, because we are globally synchronised.

German Deindustrialization Is A Wake-Up Call For U.S. Manufacturers

The woes of BASF and many other manufacturers in Germany due to government energy policies should have American industry taking notice.

www.forbes.com

Germany faces deindustrialization amid investment outflows: IW

Germany faces deindustrialization amid investment outflows: IW-

english.news.cn

Europe’s economic engine is stalling: Germany deindustrializes

The decline of the Continent’s largest economy will send shudders across the EU’s already polarized political landscape.

www.politico.eu

Why would anyone want to see Germany fall? Is this how bad the hate has gotten in politics?

The price of oil is coming down again and was $55 a barrel last time I looked. This is good news for the old-style energy-intensive industries like mechanical engineering, chemicals, cars, where Germany has dominated in the last decades but where they have suffered in the last few years. Many of these products were made for export, so local Germans do not always feel the pain of reductions. We just need to avoid a deal with the USA to buy overpriced LNG and we should be OK for the next few years. In the meantime, the German economy has not shrunk overall, with big growth in e-mobility, renewable energy, IT and cybersecurity, healthcare and biotech, and artificial intelligence. Our defense industry is now on the edge of a boom with large-scale finance coming in the next ten years. My own company is in the Mittelstand and has doubled in size the last ten years and supplies half the biggest customers in the DACH region now. Germany is uniquely placed to benefit not only from a restored manufacturing sector benefitting from low energy prices but in just about every other sector also. Local telecoms companies are booming and we are well positioned for the shift to green energy, which will eventually come for all of us.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Why would someone pay $2500.00 for a German made chainsaw when they can get a Chinese version in the exact color scheme and a slight difference in the spelling for a hundred bucks. Probably just as good.

Mine was called "Home"something. It was fine for what I needed and I ran out of trees. (Almost, it broke down cutting up the last tree I needed it for. I finished it off with a bow saw.

 

[Desk trauma]

Why would someone pay $2500.00 for a German made chainsaw when they can get a Chinese version in the exact color scheme and a slight difference in the spelling for a hundred bucks. Probably just as good.

Because they don’t have the sense to buy a Swedish one. My family has a husqvarna that’s soon going to be passed to and wielded by a third generation, much to the forests chagrin.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Because they don’t have the sense to buy a Swedish one. My family has a husqvarna that’s soon going to be passed to and wielded by a third generation, much to the forests chagrin.

I've heard of those. Not a fan of plastic.

 

[mindlight]

Because they don’t have the sense to buy a Swedish one. My family has a husqvarna that’s soon going to be passed to and wielded by a third generation, much to the forests chagrin.

Pros use the German brand Stihl which has a worldwide reputation. A top-quality chainsaw like a MS 290 Farm Boss will only cost you under 700 dollars but you can get smaller ones much cheaper from the same company.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

My wife does have a husqvarna/Viking sewing machine and it's top notch.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Pros use the German brand Stihl which has a worldwide reputation. A top-quality chainsaw like a MS 290 Farm Boss will only cost you under 700 dollars but you can get smaller ones much cheaper from the same company.

This is one of mine, 660. It does what it's supposed to do.

 

[Jermayn]

The US tariff war with the rest of the world has highlighted the rise of Chinese trade dominance and the destruction of competitors by Chinese companies worldwide.

The Chinese strategy has been :

1. steal the design
2. reverse engineer the design
3. mass produce in home market and build up corporate presence there
   go international:
4. destroy local competition with subsidized goods
5. raise prices and profits when locals destroyed
6. Buy up competitor firms with profits made

The Western world has been remarkably blind to this strategy and done little to counter it. Now many fear it might be too late for a great many industries. But the USA has the economic weight to take on China and is now doing so in an effort to re-shore jobs and industry. It is doing this for entirely selfish reasons but it raises the question of how Europe should also be dealing with China.

Can Trump break Chinese dominance or is it already too late?
What should America's allies be doing for their part in this trade war?
Should they stay aligned with the USA or adopt their own approach? Should Europe impose a similar tariff regime on competitors and develop a regional self-sufficiency or stay globalized in their outlook?

The consideration here is that in many cases Chinese products help keep prices low for the poorest members of a society versus the destruction of local jobs and industries that often results. Can we avoid a strategic overdependence on China and the wholesale massacre of local industries without losing out on the obvious advantages of trading with this massive and growing market?

Great post! I learned something new today!

 

[Laodicean60]

Great post! I learned something new today!

I agree.

Can Trump break Chinese dominance or is it already too late?
What should America's allies be doing for their part in this trade war?
Should they stay aligned with the USA or adopt their own approach? Should Europe impose a similar tariff regime on competitors and develop a regional self-sufficiency or stay globalized in their outlook?

The consideration here is that in many cases Chinese products help keep prices low for the poorest members of a society versus the destruction of local jobs and industries that often results. Can we avoid a strategic overdependence on China and the wholesale massacre of local industries without losing out on the obvious advantages of trading with this massive and growing market?

The tariffs are hurting China as we speak, and with them, it's extreme financial warfare with Trump. Trump complained about China in the 80s, and history has shown he was right. I believe Trump is going about it the wrong way by calling out China because they are a prideful country like Japan; it's about losing face. This is probably why the tit for tat and 240% lol. What I fear is that if we put the country in a corner, the natural reaction is war. I'm a globalist only in the economic sense, but governments and culture should be up to the people in the country. We've traded with China for a long time.

I believe every country should make its own decision with the people's interest at hand and without prejudice of left-right politics and with nations also, or God forbid, racism. I believe Trump is out for America first, and we've seen China's actions in history that China comes first. China has always wanted to be number one, and America allowed it because corporations profit, and we like cheap stuff, all the while hurting our workers.

I don't fault them for using the hand that was dealt to them. Yes, I also fear it's too late. Too much spiritual darkness, everyone is angry.

 

[mindlight]

I agree.

The tariffs are hurting China as we speak, and with them, it's extreme financial warfare with Trump. Trump complained about China in the 80s, and history has shown he was right. I believe Trump is going about it the wrong way by calling out China because they are a prideful country like Japan; it's about losing face. This is probably why the tit for tat and 240% lol. What I fear is that if we put the country in a corner, the natural reaction is war. I'm a globalist only in the economic sense, but governments and culture should be up to the people in the country. We've traded with China for a long time.

I believe every country should make its own decision with the people's interest at hand and without prejudice of left-right politics and with nations also, or God forbid, racism. I believe Trump is out for America first, and we've seen China's actions in history that China comes first. China has always wanted to be number one, and America allowed it because corporations profit, and we like cheap stuff, all the while hurting our workers.

I don't fault them for using the hand that was dealt to them. Yes, I also fear it's too late. Too much spiritual darkness, everyone is angry.

I think it was the right call to bring China back into the international community. They have grown rich and now have something to lose in the event of wars and civil strife. That changes the way they interact with other nations.

But the ancient arrogance that places China at the center of the world does not square well with the current world superpower, nor with other countries who have no desire to be tributary states to a nation with no conception of individual freedoms. China has played the "Great Game" very well, especially with its economy. Western countries, especially, have been caught napping while they surplanted us in many areas. It was inevitable that a "so far but no further moment" would come to the rest of us, and only a question of when, really.

The next stages are really important as a newly assertive USA and indeed Europe defend their interests with more purpose. We want peace, not war, prosperity, not poverty, and righteousness, not Machiavellianism, moving forward. We can insist on more justice and transparency without creating the conditions for world war or, indeed, global trade wars. Trump has gone for the Big Bang approach on tariffs, which makes for exciting headlines but may only achieve the opposite of what he intended. A wiser approach would have been to prioritize opponents and take them out one by one using the leverage of allies. It is not too late for him to shift his strategy.

 

[Laodicean60]

But the ancient arrogance that places China at the center of the world does not square well with the current world superpower, nor with other countries who have no desire to be tributary states to a nation with no conception of individual freedoms. China has played the "Great Game" very well, especially with its economy. Western countries, especially, have been caught napping while they surplanted us in many areas. It was inevitable that a "so far but no further moment" would come to the rest of us, and only a question of when, really.

I'd say they are proud, and if Trump hadn't been so brash in his speech, they may have come to the table earlier. Since we have a global economic recession coming, they are caught between a rock and a hard place, which is why they are making concessions on some goods.

I don't think we were napping when China joined the WTO, and my in-laws were laid off (textile), and manufacturing left the country. I knew it was a bad idea. Corporations knew exactly what they were pushing my government for: in essence, cheap labor and lack of competitiveness in the job market. The middle class has been hurt since.

With all this, I don't blame China for trying to do what every country in the world would do if given the opportunity, and that's to be #1. I also don't like our actions toward them because we allowed them to be who they are today. We use the Reserve Currency as a weapon by sanctioning semiconductors because we gave our manufacturing away. I bet you a blessing point that as soon as we get up to speed on semiconductors, we will throw Taiwan away.

We want peace, not war, prosperity, not poverty, and righteousness, not Machiavellianism, moving forward.

Amen!

Trump has gone for the Big Bang approach on tariffs, which makes for exciting headlines but may only achieve the opposite of what he intended. A wiser approach would have been to prioritize opponents and take them out one by one using the leverage of allies. It is not too late for him to shift his strategy.

I agree he is too aggressive, and many don't realize he is changing the global monetary system, and we will feel PAIN. In the long run, it will be good for the USA. We will have a debt crisis during his administration because we've overspent just like the empires of the past; England was the last, which allowed us to become the reserve currency holder.

We have to borrow so much for our interest on our debt, which has reached a breaking point. My stupid government Republicans have been "talking" about this for decades and here we are.