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It was more than just hanging around together instead of spreading out, though that, too.
Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
They were wanting to reach to the heavens with something they had made---something so high, another flood would not destroy them---which essentially they were not believing His promise to not destroy the earth again with a flood. Yes, they were working together--but to what end---to make a name for themselves, to glorify themselves. They were working together apart from God and that, if they continued, would have ended up with them being like the people before the flood. Doing only what they wanted which ended up only evil. Spreading out, each with their own language made them learn to work together to survive and take care of each other, not work together to be glorifying themselves and spending their time trying to thwart the will of God. They were self-absorbed.
Personally, and nothing in the bible states this, I believe He separated them into groups that already had similarities in appearance. We tend to gravitate to others "like us", and whatever those similarities were, just became more pronounced over time by their "segregation". There is nothing in the bible that prohibits Adam and Eve having been given DNA different from ours and that the joining of the 2 genetic codes brought into being all the different variations in their offspring that would produce the various races., which was passed on down by Noah and his family.
There's a lot of truth in here, but a lot of speculation as well. Trying to avoid a flood is speculation, and honestly, not even a practical way of avoiding a flood. However, I can see the idea that they were trying to make a name for themselves instead of glorifying God as a problem in God's eyes.
The other part, about working together because they were separated seems unnecessary, since the problem at hand was them working together. It would seem, by this explanation, that God wanted them to rely on Him, and if he hadn't done what he did, then they wouldn't need to rely on Him. There's nothing inherently sinful about trying to build a big city and work together. If there was some other motivation behind it, then a different action would have more specifically targeted that problem instead of creating conflict. That isn't to say that I know better than God on how to deal with the situation, it is to say that we should interpret the actions we read about in a way that directly relates to what God is reacting to. God's actions caused it to be harder for us to work together, so God had a problem with us working together.
If the tower went to the heavens, meaning high up, some people might be able to escape another flood, that God promised would neve ever happen again.
By "high up" it would have to be taller than the highest mountain, or built on the tallest mountain... A strong navy would be a more appropriate defense against another flood. That would have a direct connection between the fear and the solution. A tower though? In a round a bout way you could think that a tower was a defense against a flood, but no where in the text does it mention this as the motivation for the tower so any statement thereof is purely speculation.
Nope ... not in the least.I see no reason to think technological advances worry God, nor the speed of developing them.
I think I can safely say that if God were to come down here and change all our languages to about seven different new ones that never before existed, technology would come to a screeching halt for a few decades until all seven groups learned each other's language.katerinah1947 said:It increases their knowledge.
Didn't Darwin write, The Preservation of Favoured Races?Amazing. Some people here would have us believing that racism is a good, godly thing. I don't understand religious people anymore.
Nope ... not in the least.
He simply confounded their language and that ended that.
I think I can safely say that if God were to come down here and change all our languages to about seven different new ones that never before existed, technology would come to a screeching halt for a few decades until all seven groups learned each other's language.
In fact, He wouldn't even have to go that far.
All He would have to do is change all our languages to one: Klingon; and that would put an end to a lot of technological advancements.
He simply confounded their language and that ended that.
Afaik the tower is mentioned only there. The repercussions are all over the OT, though, because that event was the origin of "the nations".First I'll ask if it is mentioned elsewhere in The Bible. Is there more about the tower elsewhere with any other information at all?
It is history, a recounting of the event that gave birth to the nations and their languages. Early Jewish sources expand on it, including Josephus' Antiquties and the Aramaic Targums.Is there anything that Christians or Jews learn from this story? Is it just a story to explain where all the languages came from?
The OT has no concept of what we now call "race". Instead, there were seventy original "nations", each given a language and named after one of the individuals in the Table of Nations in Genesis 10.It seems to have negative connotations though. Is this the start of racism? I know that sounds bad, but the story clearly says that people were working together as one people. Afterwords they were scattered around the world and speaking different languages. Is that not the beginning of other races in the world? It's certainly more significant than different nations. If so, then is God (at this point in history, perhaps he changes things later) advocating racism because he doesn't want us to all work together?
Didn't Darwin write, The Preservation of Favoured Races?
I pointed out to someone else who said the same thing that this isn't really true. When you think of racism the first thing that comes to mind is black v white, and skin color in general. But we have had, and still have, plenty of racism just among whites. Think of the racial slurs you know for Italian, Irish, Polish, and French people. Different nations with different languages is exactly where people begin to hate each other for no good reason.The OT has no concept of what we now call "race". Instead, there were seventy original "nations", each given a language and named after one of the individuals in the Table of Nations in Genesis 10.
Imo, the event at Babel is truly the origin of our division into national groups, and God did force that to occur. But I think the way we often disparage one another is our own choice. I don't think God forces us to do that.I pointed out to someone else who said the same thing that this isn't really true. When you think of racism the first thing that comes to mind is black v white, and skin color in general. But we have had, and still have, plenty of racism just among whites. Think of the racial slurs you know for Italian, Irish, Polish, and French people. Different nations with different languages is exactly where people begin to hate each other for no good reason.
True, I'm not trying to take our responsibility from us when we act in a racist manner. I would never suggest that any sane individual is not responsible for his own actions. But that doesn't mean that there is never an outside source exerting force on our actions. So the question isn't about what we chose to do as a result of God's actions, it is what did God want our actions to be as a result of His actions. And I would say that he wanted us to not get along so well, according to the story.Imo, the event at Babel is truly the origin of our division into national groups, and God did force that to occur. But I think the way we often disparage one another is our own choice. I don't think God forces us to do that.
Again, true. But isn't it too late for that? In all practicality, there's no ending racism completely. Even though this is likely what God wants Christians to strive for, there's no turning back for the world from the road that we've been on for 3000 years. Since not every person is going to be a Christian, and let's face it, not everyone who claims to be a Christian is not going to be a racist, the divisiveness that God started will never go away completely.And I also believe those divisions ceased to have any meaning after the resurrection of Christ. In Christ, our new identity as his children overrides our original national identities. As Paul said: "Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.".
Did you ever read a book called, God's Voice in the Stars, by Ken Fleming?Well, back to the Babylonians, ever heard of the Mazzaroth? The Jewish peoples had some lore concerning the constellations of the stars, and most of it has been lost in time, but the little that does remain, seems to tell a story about Christ. Well, that's interesting, because the Mazzaroth pre-dates Christ by a longshot.
Did you ever read a book called, God's Voice in the Stars, by Ken Fleming?
It's a great read!Read, no. Heard of it, yes.
It's a great read!
One of my favorite examples is why the sky went dark for three hours at the Crucifixion.
Looking up into the dark sky, they saw the constellation Aries.
The Greeks called Aries "the Ram," but the Hebrews knew Aries as "the Lamb of God [slain from the foundation of the world]."
That makes a nice little point, that those who want to find God, will. They do so by starting with the Bible, and then looking around them and comparing stuff they see to what they read in the Bible. Lots and lots of tidbits God left scattered throughout society, like this book you mentioned and others I've heard of.
However, those who try to disprove God.... well, like I've said in other places, nobody has, and nobody ever will.
At least, the few Hebrews that still remembered the old ways. From the things that Jesus said and did in the gospels, it sounded like the great majority of the Jews had forgotten most of what they were taught by Moses in the first place..
That makes a nice little point, that those who want to find God, will. They do so by starting with the Bible, and then looking around them and comparing stuff they see to what they read in the Bible. Lots and lots of tidbits God left scattered throughout society.....
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