The Tough Questions

[LuxPerpetua]

I'm not sure where to post this in CF, so if this post is inappropriate to this particular board, I ask the mods in advance to move it.

These are some questions I've been puzzling and praying over recently, and I'd love to hear your take (which is always best with Scriptural support). I hope we all see this as an opportunity to see others' points-of-view and not turn this into a bash session (as I've seen happen on other message boards when discussing difficult topics).

1. Do you believe in the predestination of believers?

2. Do you believe in (or care about) the perpetual virginity of Mary?

3. Do you support female clergy?

4. Do you think people go straight to heaven or hell upon death, or that the soul exists as in sleep awaiting judgment on the Last Day?

5. Do you believe that some people have lived lives so blessed they are without sin?

6. Do you think that God could have chosen evolution as his method of creation, and thus view the creation story in Genesis as an allegory, or are creationism and evolution always opposed?


***Again, I'd like to stress that these are issues that I personally would like deeper clarification of, and I hope that you will read this thread in the spirit of honest and open inquiry in which it is written.

Peace in Christ,

Allison

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Since no one has replied as of yet, I wanted to add another question into the mix:

7. Is infant baptism legitimate baptism or should only older children or adults be baptized as a way of confirming their faith?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Infant baptisim is not legitament because you need to be old enough to understand what you are doing. If you don't know what you are doing, then what use is it? You need to acknowledged your sin. An infant can't be taught or repent. They have no reasoning or understanding.

Every one sins. No one is perfact exept God. The bible says that everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:9 it may also be in another book, sorry)

Yes, I believe Mary was a virgin be cause the Bible clearly says that she was. (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18-25, Luke 2:1-7, John 1:14, 1 John 4:9)

Sorry I didn't answer the others, but these are the ones, for me atleast, that are eaisiest to explain.

 

[Beauty4Ashes]

well, here's what I think.

1. Yes I believe God predestined me for example. Because my life can testify to it. But to say that any other particular individual is NOT predestined to be saved, would be to say that some people God does not want to save. I think he predestines us but we also have free will. So I'm not sure if that helps.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by the perpetual virginity. If this is a catholic ideal, then no i probably do not. I belive she was the mother of Jesus and was a virgin when she became pregnant with him. I dont think she is a saint to be worshiped or idolized but that I'll definately get to meet her in heaven.

3. Yes

4. straight to heaven or hell...but not neccesarily straight to the new jeruselem. Though its not up to me to pretend I know because God is SOO much bigger than all of our minds put together.

5. NO

6. Evolution, NO. Another form we dont have the ability to udnerstand, yes.

7. If you are not aware of what you are doing and have not made the choice, how in the world is that confirming your faith. I think babtising infants is a way of the parent dedicating their child to God. But you have to be old enough to make the decision for yourself and to comprehend what that proccess is otherwise it's merely someone else doing it for you.

 

[karla]

1. Do you believe in the predestination of believers?

I always loved this quote by St. Ambrose "He did not predestine before He foreknew, but for those whose merits He foresaw, He predestined the reward"

2. Do you believe in (or care about) the perpetual virginity of Mary?
Yes and yes. This belief is important because it emphasizes the uniqueness of Mary's call and mission. She chose this virginity to honor God.

3. Do you support female clergy?
No, it's not biblical

4. Do you think people go straight to heaven or hell upon death, or that the soul exists as in sleep awaiting judgment on the Last Day?

I believe that some people go straight to heaven, some go straight to hell, but for the majority of us we go to purgatory. It is a sign of God's mercy on those that have honestly sought to know God and to do his will in this life, and yet who die in some degree of bondage to sin or the effects of sin.

5. Do you believe that some people have lived lives so blessed they are without sin? No

6. Do you think that God could have chosen evolution as his method of creation, and thus view the creation story in Genesis as an allegory, or are creationism and evolution always opposed? No they are not always opposed. The story of Genesis is more about the meaning behind it all rather than scientific facts. Obviously snakes do not really talk. God is our creator, but that is not to say that evolution is exclusive of that. God gives us our souls


7. Is infant baptism legitimate baptism or should only older children or adults be baptized as a way of confirming their faith?
Infant baptism underscores the fact that salvation is a free gift from God. When someone is baptized, it is Christ who baptizes. He is the one who saves. It remind us that it is not something the person could have earned or merited. The child did not ask to be baptized neither did he ask to be born, they are both gift's from God broutght through human agents: the parents. Re-baptism implies that God's work of salvation through baptism was ineffective the first time. If a baptized child turns away from God, they only need to repent and recommit themselves to following Christ.

 

[andy j]

1. Do you believe in the predestination of believers?

I always loved this quote by St. Ambrose "He did not predestine before He foreknew, but for those whose merits He foresaw, He predestined the reward"

That is beautiful,

I've never heard that before, but I think I love it too.

Aj

 

[karla]

well, here's what I think.

I'm not sure what you mean by the perpetual virginity. If this is a catholic ideal, then no i probably do not. I belive she was the mother of Jesus and was a virgin when she became pregnant with him. I dont think she is a saint to be worshiped or idolized but that I'll definately get to meet her in heaven.

Just to clarify, Catholics do not worship or idolize Mary, but we do address Mary in prayer and ask her to pray on our behalf. We pray in this way because we believe that Mary continues to have a vital cooperative role in God's plan of salvation, just as she did when she accepted Jesus into her womb and eventually became his disciple. Now, Mary is with the lord, enjoying the glory and reward of faithful discipleship, and continuing to have a motherly concern and powerful role of intercession for all God's people.

 

[The Midge]

1. Do you believe in the predestination of believers?
Yes and No. There is both free will and a certain amount of fore knowledge. I imagine it like a cosmic game of chess. We are the pieces who have certain rules and moves that we can make. God asks us to do His bidding and it is upto us if we do. He is the ultimate grand master and no matter what our choice is He can bring about the desired result in the end. Of course if we follow His requests God will win the game that much quicker than if we did not.

2. Do you believe in (or care about) the perpetual virginity of Mary?
I do not. How do you think james the brother of Jesus came to be?

3. Do you support female clergy?
I do not really believe in a priesthood i.e. special people who have access to, or are intermediaries with God. God dwells in us through the Holy Spirit. Therefore we have direct access to God. Also we (the Church) are described as a "royal priesthood". The book of Hebrews desribes how the crucifixtion was a perfect sacrifice that gains access to God for us. It does not need to be repeated.

4. Do you think people go straight to heaven or hell upon death, or that the soul exists as in sleep awaiting judgment on the Last Day?
I don't think we have been told that. My personel opinion is that what ever the result we willnot notice any time that passes and it will seem instntanious to our perception.

5. Do you believe that some people have lived lives so blessed they are without sin?
No. The more blessed you are the more sinful you realise you are.

6. Do you think that God could have chosen evolution as his method of creation, and thus view the creation story in Genesis as an allegory, or are creationism and evolution always opposed?
Theistic evolution in other words? If God chose to create an old world, one in which time passed and did it in 7 days would it look any different to one that had come about by random chance over billions of years?
I think the most important points that the creation stories make is that God is the creator and that the world was good. Thus we know it has been spoiled by our failings, that there is a reason for the universe and us and that it is to be restores. I think the actual time is not the point at stake nor does Christianity stand or fall on the issue. Science explains how but not why.

7. Is infant baptism legitimate baptism or should only older children or adults be baptized as a way of confirming their faith?
If by being baptised you are saying to God that you are being changed and that you are dying to your old way on life and it has meaning and significance to you then perhaps you should consider it. It is between you and God. I was baptized as an infant, confirmed as a school boy and imersed when I decided on my own belief.
I think we are saved on confession of Christ not by baptism.

These are my opinions.

 

[Risen Tree]

I'm not sure where to post this in CF, so if this post is inappropriate to this particular board, I ask the mods in advance to move it.

These are some questions I've been puzzling and praying over recently, and I'd love to hear your take (which is always best with Scriptural support). I hope we all see this as an opportunity to see others' points-of-view and not turn this into a bash session (as I've seen happen on other message boards when discussing difficult topics).

I think this is the right place.

1. Do you believe in the predestination of believers?

God calls, we answer. God knows whether we are going to answer, therefore he can plan or predestin it to happen before we even come into existence.

I have a theory, however, that God can call people who do not answer him, such as but not limited to King Saul and Judas.

2. Do you believe in (or care about) the perpetual virginity of Mary?

IMHO the issue is irrelevant. She was clearly a virgin when Christ was born, but the scripture is silent as to what happens to her

3. Do you support female clergy?

I didn't used to, but every one of Paul's instructions on segregation of the sexes (and many other issues, for that matter) that I've carefully examined is a cultural-context quote. So, why not?

4. Do you think people go straight to heaven or hell upon death, or that the soul exists as in sleep awaiting judgment on the Last Day?

We all go to Hades when we die. The believers in Christ have a special, suffering-free section set apart for them--Paradise.

5. Do you believe that some people have lived lives so blessed they are without sin?

Other than Jesus, no. Sin is an identity issue, not an action issue.

6. Do you think that God could have chosen evolution as his method of creation, and thus view the creation story in Genesis as an allegory, or are creationism and evolution always opposed?

I'm currently debating that one and am slowly leaning toward evolution.

7. Is infant baptism legitimate baptism or should only older children or adults be baptized as a way of confirming their faith?

Infant baptism in the name of affirming that they will be brought up under a Christian setting is fine; infant baptism in the name of bringing them salvation is wrong.

***Again, I'd like to stress that these are issues that I personally would like deeper clarification of, and I hope that you will read this thread in the spirit of honest and open inquiry in which it is written.

Some issues we can't know for sure. Allow God to give you the wisdom to discern what is true and what is false.

 

[marc]

1. Do you believe in the predestination of believers?

Romans 9:13-24 In a nut shell. If He did, who are we to challenge it. If He didn't, who are we to challenge it.
2 pet 3:9 "...not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

2. Do you believe in (or care about) the perpetual virginity of Mary?

Jesus had half brothers. Matt. 13:55 "... and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?" In other words, no.

3. Do you support female clergy?

I think it all comes down to usurping authority. A woman can be teaching men the things of the Lord, but she is under the head of a male pastor and the men she is teaching are under the head of the male pastor. A woman could be a pastor over other women under the head of a male pastor.
So I think the "title" doesn't matter it's where the headship lies.

4. Do you think people go straight to heaven or hell upon death, or that the soul exists as in sleep awaiting judgment on the Last Day?

2 cor 5:9 ..." to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord"
I believe, because God is out of and separate from time, we are with Him immediately after death. We won't receive our new bodies until later though. As far as the "sleep" portion, well if we do sleep then when we wake up we will be with the Lord, in other words, we won't know that time elapsed, it will appear to us instantaneous, unless of course you have to wake up in the middle of the 1,000 or so years to go to the bathroom. Hopefully you will wake up in a modern time with toilets and not outhouses.
Purgatory is heresy. Hades was for those before Christ's death and Jesus went there and released those that were held there.

5. Do you believe that some people have lived lives so blessed they are without sin?

No.
Romans 3:9-12 all have sinned.

6. Do you think that God could have chosen evolution as his method of creation, and thus view the creation story in Genesis as an allegory, or are creationism and evolution always opposed?

Always opposed. One says we are getting better(evolving). One says we are cursed and getting worse(fallen man).


In Christ

Marc

 

[barefoot and dancing]

1.) No

2.) absolulty not, James was the brother of Jesus says so in the Bible

3.) No I do not.

4.) Straight to heaven or hell.

5.) Nope

6.) He could have but He didn't

7.) No you have to be old enough to make a decision for myself.

 

[marc]

Since no one has replied as of yet, I wanted to add another question into the mix:

7. Is infant baptism legitimate baptism or should only older children or adults be baptized as a way of confirming their faith?

Oh, I missed this one. If infant baptism is in anyway considered to save a baby it is heresy. The only baptism called for is clearly layed out in scripture. I don't need to quote it.

In Christ

Marc