The Toronto 'Blessing': what saith scripture?

  • Thread starter Pilgrim and stranger
  • Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Pilgrim and stranger

Guest
The Toronto Phenomenon

by​
Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, Ph.D.​
Chafer Theological Seminary​

Preface
This article is the first of a two-part series on the so-called Toronto Phenomenon. We offer this article because it is an excellent example of applying the “Sufficiency of Scripture”—a distinctive of CTS to a modern religious movement.

Introduction

I have been asked, both verbally in public as well as in many letters, if I believe that the Toronto Phenomenon is truly a work of God. Frankly, that so many believers even need to ask this question shows how far the evangelical world has moved from the Word of God. How easily this departure has led to being "tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.” It has been my observation that over the last 10-15 years, more and more believers are becoming biblically illiterate; such illiteracy leads to seeking new spiritual experiences, no matter where they may come from, and to a lack of knowledge of Scripture to evaluate these experiences biblically. The church has, indeed, entered a sad state and one author's book, Christianity in Crisis, is very aptly named.


Is This a Charismatic Vs. Non-Charismatic Issue?

I know that there are those who will read this editorial and, as a result, will cut off any and all support they have been giving to Ariel Ministries or Chafer Theological Seminary. In this sense, then, it is neither to my, Ariel's, nor CTS’s, advantage for me to write this article, and it would be more profitable either to stay neutral or to stay silent. But I would disobey my calling as a teacher of the Word, and would betray my gift of teaching, if I kept silent in the face of such a terrible deception and delusion being propounded upon the Christian world today.

Before dealing with the issue, I think another point must be clarified. When I receive criticism to my criticisms of the Toronto Phenomenon by its supporters, one common notion is that the only reason I must be opposed to it is because I am not "Spirit-filled," or "Pentecostal," or "Charismatic." True, I am neither Pentecostal or Charismatic in the way these terms have been defined, though I believe I am Spirit-filled in the way the Bible defines the term. However, I refuse to allow this to become a Charismatic/Pentecostal vs. non-Pentecostals/non-Charismatic issue. The fact is that this has divided far more Pentecostal/Charismatic churches than it has divided other kinds. I have in my possession a large file of criticisms of the Toronto Phenomenon. About half of the criticisms come from non-Charismatic/non-Pentecostal sources, but at least half if not more come from Pentecostal/Charismatic sources.

In fact, two acquaintances of mine who are Charismatic, and have been within the Charismatic movement for many years, have written to me stating that they had attended a Toronto-style meeting at a Southern California church, and the guest speaker was the pastor of the Toronto Vineyard. They pointed out that the many things they saw in these meetings--things that are now declared to be evidences of being Spirit-filled and divine supernatural acts from God--were in previous times considered demonic. And those doing these things, such as laughing uncontrollably or making animal sounds, would have been considered demonized; in fact, these two acquaintances formerly cast demons out of such people. What was once considered demonic has now become normative in certain circles.

Again, all of this shows that we are not dealing with the Pentecostal-Charismatic and/or non-Pentecostal/non-Charismatic issue. This is an issue which has divided the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement in and of itself. I want to make it clear that this is not an issue of difference between Pentecostal/Charismatics and non-Pentecostals/non-Charismatics, as the issue of tongues might be (even though that, too, may be questionable). Here, we deal with an issue that has divided the Pentecostal/Charismatic church itself more than any other group outside that circle. So, I refuse to allow anyone to excuse this with a simple wave of the hand and "You are only saying it because you are not Charismatic." The documented criticisms of the Toronto Phenomenon clearly falsify that kind of elementary dismissal.

As further evidence, while I was writing this very paper, the Association of Vineyard Fellowships, founded by John Wimber, expelled the Airport Vineyard Fellowship of Toronto from its association for "going over the edge" in encouraging people to "bark like dogs, swoon to the floor and laugh uncontrollably during services." So now this movement has even caused a split within the Vineyard Movement itself. While it is good to see that even the Vineyard Movement has a boundary they will not cross, their own criticisms of the phenomenon are based on a weak foundation. The Vineyard Movement has based their own teachings and doctrine largely on experience and not on the written Word of God. The question, then, is: On what grounds can the Vineyard Movement claim authenticity based on experience while the Toronto Phenomenon cannot? The Vineyard Fellowship itself is on very weak ground in their expulsion of the Toronto Vineyard. After all, this is only one group's experiences as over against another’s.

I have recently received reports from Jewish believers I know in Israel. The leader and founder of the Toronto Vineyard, who has been promoting this phenomenon, was invited by a group in Israel to come and promote this new phenomenon in Israel. He arrived on the same day as Yitzak Rabin was assassinated. Rather than doing the right thing and canceling the meetings, the promoters chose to continue as planned. That created a tragic contradictory scene. The whole country was literally in shock and in mourning for their slain leader. And here were a group of believers spending their time in uncontrollable laughter. Even if I allowed my experience to be a criteria for determining truth, this, alone, would have finalized in my mind the tragic error and ungodly origins of this phenomenon. It made some of my friends sick to have observed this. In my case, it made me sick only to hear about it. This should show how far away from the will of the Lord this whole experience is. But, again, the final criteria must be the Word of God.

The proper way of determining truth is to go to the Word of God first and not rely on other peoples' experiences. Furthermore, the Bible must be our final and only authority on all matters of both faith (what we believe) and practice (actions and experiences, etc.). Unfortunately, what has happened in recent years is that a new experience or phenomenon breaks out in some part of the church, and then people simply try to find verses to justify the activity rather than being willing to admit that the experience--no matter how wonderful or supernatural it felt--was simply not of God. A good example of this tactic is seen in some of the events surrounding the Toronto Phenomenon.


The Characteristics of the Toronto Phenomenon

Uncontrollable laughter
What are some of the characteristics of this Toronto Phenomenon? It includes uncontrollable laughter, referred to by its adherents as "holy laughter," which is often accompanied by falling backwards toward the ground. I have not seen where the laughter is, itself, defended by Scripture, but the falling back is often defended on the basis that when Jesus said, "I am," those who came to arrest him fell backward. They also make references to people like Daniel who, when faced with the presence of something supernatural, would fall to the ground. However, that is not quite in keeping with what is happening with the Toronto Phenomenon. For example, in terms of people who were truly in God's presence and were so overawed that they fell to the ground, they always fell forward and not backward. As for the Roman soldiers, that was not a blessing, but a judgment, and these were not believers, but unbelievers; barely a few hours later, these soldiers who fell backward were nailing Jesus to the cross. Clearly, they were not being blessed by any "slaying of the spirit" phenomenon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GaelSong
P

Pilgrim and stranger

Guest
Animal noises
Another characteristic of the Toronto Phenomenon is people making animal noises and acting like animals. The two most common such behaviors, so far, have been barking like a dog and roaring like a lion. In one case, it has been reported that someone was "swimming in the spirit" as he was lying on his belly and making like a fish. What scriptural justification do people make for this?

Some pull verses out of context that speak of God roaring like a lion. There are two problems with using verses of this nature: First of all, the Scriptures never say that God will make His own people roar like lions and act like animals; second, in those passages that view God as roaring like a lion, it is always in preparation for judgment, and not blessing. The roaring is against unbelievers. It is never said that He causes believers to roar like lions, or bark like dogs (I am beginning to wonder if someday in a mixed congregation of Jewish and Gentile believers, the Jews will be "mooing like cows" and the Gentiles will be "oinking like pigs"?). Another passage I have seen defenders use to try to justify the animal actions is Daniel four, where God made Nebuchadnezzar act like an ox. Here, again, this was not a blessing for Nebuchadnezzar, but a judgment on an unbeliever who saw himself as a god.

In other words, if you judge by way of Scripture, people acting like animals is not a sign of any divine blessing from God; on the contrary, if God is involved at all in such an event, it is a sign of judgment. The fact is that God is not involved at all. Satan is probably involved to a great measure (he, too, is symbolized by a lion in 1 Peter 5:8-9) and, for most people on the lay level who are involved, they have become self-deceived and deceived by false teachers and have become victims of mass hysteria and mesmerism.

Balaam’s donkey
The most relevant passage to all this is found in Numbers 22, where God made Balaam's donkey speak like a man. Now, this is a true work of God, something Toronto will never be able to duplicate.

That is pretty well the extent of the biblical evidence people have tried to use to defend the various practices, and anyone with even a small measure of biblical literacy should already be able to see through the fallacy of it all.


Proponents’ Comments
Most proponents defend the practice not on the basis of Scripture, but on the basis of their own experience. The most common evidence is that it makes them feel happy and joyful, though this does not take into account that any kind of emotional release of this nature will make one feel better. Even unbelievers can have this same experience. Furthermore, Satan would not be a very good deceiver if he made you feel bad, would he? Satan can give people joyful and happy experiences, and doing so would be in his best interest if that--rather than the Word of God--becomes the final authority for determining spiritual truth.

I read an article by a woman who had the experience of making animal sounds. She tried to defend the practice, and her conclusion was that God's intention is to strip His ministers and His people of "their dignity," just as Jesus was stripped of His dignity on the cross. It may be true that man stripped Jesus of His dignity on the cross, but that is hardly a base for deducing that God will strip His people of their dignity. On the contrary, God will certainly do what He must to strip people of their pride and humble them, but He will never strip them of their dignity in light of the fact that man still has the image of God in him. Another man wrote to me and said that what he sees is that God is now "taking back His church." How people making animal noises and uncontrolled laughter could possibly be construed as evidence that God "is taking back His church" is certainly a point beyond belief.

What should be noted, both in the woman's defense ("God is stripping His people of their dignity") and the man's ("God is taking back His church"), is that both are extremely subjective in their deductions. If you ask them a simple question: "On what basis do you say that this is what God is doing with all these animal sounds and actions?" they can only grow more subjective still. When I answered the man's letter, I pointed out to him that after defending all this with so many words, he never cited one Scripture to defend the practice. And that is the way it is with virtually all the defenders, who continually and dangerously prioritize experience over God's Word.
The Holy Scriptures: The Only Authority to Validate Biblical and Spiritual Truth

Without going into any further detail about the phenomenon itself, we will apply the real biblical test to non-biblical experiences and those who make strange sounds.

Isaiah 8
Bind you up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. . . . And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits and unto the wizards, that chirp and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? on behalf of the living should they seek unto the dead? To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them (Isa. 8:16, 19-20).​
In this section of Isaiah, one of the motifs [or themes] of Isaiah is the contrast between the Remnant (Jews who believe) and the non-remnant (Jews who do not believe). In verse 16, one crucial difference between the two groups is the place that the Scriptures have in their lives. The law is the Law of Moses, and the testimony is the words of the Prophets. What distinguishes the Remnant is that they believe that which Moses and the Prophets declared: this is the foundation of their faith and this is also their authority. The non-remnant rejects the Scriptures as the final authority and seeks to make God more "real in their experience" by going towards idolatry and looking at gods and goddesses that they could see, feel, and touch, creating a more visual picture while they worship.

In verse 19, Isaiah issues a warning that they are not to go after counterfeit spirits and teachers “that chirp and that mutter.” In other words, Isaiah is warning people not to pursue supernatural things that cause them to make the strange sounds of chirping and muttering. Put into the context of the Toronto Phenomenon, the warning would be: Do not pursue after those who will get you to make strange sounds, whether it is uncontrollable laughter and giggles, barking like a dog, roaring like a lion, etc. Why? For while these experiences might come from the supernatural, not all that comes out of the supernatural is of God, as verse 19 clearly shows. Indeed, those who went after those “that chirp and that mutter” could well come out with great testimonies of experiencing the supernatural and feeling joyful and great. But Isaiah would not accept any of that as valid testimony.

The only valid testimony is what he declares in verse 20: “To the law and to the testimony!” In other words, back to the Law and the Prophets, back to the Scriptures, as the only final authority. And the closing phrase should not be missed: “if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them.” Isaiah makes it quite clear: Regardless of the supernatural experiences others may have, if it does not align with the written Word of God that was already present in Isaiah's day, there is simply no morning light for them.

Isaiah 29
Tarry ye and wonder; take your pleasure and be blind: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. For Jehovah has poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes, the prophets; and your heads, the seers, has he covered. And all vision is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray you; and he says, I cannot, for it is sealed: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray you; and he says, I am not learned. And the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw nigh unto me, and with their mouth and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught them; therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid (Isa. 29:9-14).​
Isaiah introduces his comments by prophesying how people will become spiritually blind and, therefore, will stagger in spiritual blindness (29:9). They will certainly stagger as if they were drunken, but not with alcohol. People have become spiritually blind and are groping in their spiritual darkness, having no spiritual sight to see. Isaiah points out that this has all happened because of divine judgment and is not merely accidental or coincidental (29:10). What has happened is that because they refused to follow Isaiah's earlier admonition (Isa. 8:20), they have now been confirmed in their spiritual darkness and, therefore, have fallen into a spiritual sleep so that now they have no capacity to understand the Prophets. As a result, all of the prophecies of Isaiah and the Prophets that came before him have become to the populace as “a book that is sealed” (29:11). When it is presented to someone who is learned, although he has had the capacity and training to understand these things, because he chose to pursue that which “chirp” and “mutter,” even for the learned one, the book has become like a sealed book that he can no longer understand.

Insofar as understanding spiritual truth, he has become like the one who is not trained or learned (29:12), and the trained and learned one has the same incapacity and inability to understand the Word of God as the one who is untrained and unlearned. However, it is then made clear that outwardly these people appear both religious and spiritual (29:13). They do continue drawing unto God with their mouths and they do honor God with their lips, but their hearts are far away from God. What makes their hearts far away from God is that whatever fear they have of the Lord is based upon man-made commandments and traditions, rather than that which God Himself had said and taught in the Scriptures.

Isaiah and Toronto
Applying this to the Toronto Phenomenon, one defense I have heard many times is, "How could this not be of God when they focus so much on Jesus?" But how does one know that they focus so much on Jesus? It is based on what they say verbally as you constantly hear them saying, "Praise the Lord," or "Praise Jesus," or some similar-sounding phrase. It is constantly repeated and what the Bible-based observer must realize is that this is merely a formula, much like those who recite a mantra in eastern religions. There is nothing concrete there. Just verbalizing the name of Jesus over and over again does not, by itself, prove anything. In fact, it fits this verse quite well: “and with their mouth and with their lips [they] do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me” (Isaiah 29:13b). Their heart is far from God in reality for the same reason: they have learned to fear God on the basis of man-made experiences, rather than on the basis of the Word of God (20:13c). They follow man-made doctrines and repeat constant phrases someone trained them to repeat, believing that this constant repetition is what makes them spiritual. As a result, more time is spent seeking further experiences than on actual study of the Word of God in its own context.
The result is even a further judgment where both wisdom and understanding begin to perish (29:14). More and more, as people seek deeper and deeper experiences, they spend less and less time actually in the discipline of studying the Word of God, and they reach a point where they begin to lack total understanding in the Word of God. While they constantly do "God-talk" and "Jesus-speak," when they begin to deal with the real concrete details of the Word of God, they are at a total loss. My observations with many personal contacts of people who get involved in these things is that the more experiential they become, the less they understand of the Word of God. I have seen verse 14 verified many times over.
 
Upvote 0
P

Pilgrim and stranger

Guest
The Book of Acts


The thing you find Scripture emphasizing is that the final authority must be the Scriptures, the written Word of God, and not anyone’s experience. Certainly, the Apostles could have related many of their experiences with Jesus in trying to defend their preaching about Jesus. One thing the Book of Acts keeps re-emphasizing is that Paul, Silas and the others always made their final authority the Word of God and not their own experiences, as incredible as those experiences were by God’s grace.
Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: and Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and for three Sabbath days reasoned with them from the scriptures, opening and alleging that it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to rise again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom, said he, I proclaim unto you, is the Christ. And some of them were persuaded, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few (Acts 17:1-4).​
By and large, one does not find Paul using his personal experiences, especially his key experience on Damascus Road, as a tool for evangelizing. For Paul, the final authority had to be the Scriptures and not his own experience or testimony and, therefore, that was the focus of his evidence and that is what convinced so many. Those who came to believe (17:4) did not do so because of any signs and wonders they saw Paul perform, but rather because of how he expounded the written Scriptures and showed how Jesus fulfilled the necessary Scriptures.

The two times recorded where Paul does give his personal account as to how he became a believer on the road to Damascus is used as part of his defense when he is on trial. You do not find him using it in a situation in which his goal was evangelism. I want to make it clear that I am not opposed to personal testimonies and I do share my own testimony quite frequently. What I am saying is that my testimony can never be a final authority, nor can anyone else’s. Furthermore, people who have converted to other religions--be it Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses or Christian Science--may also give powerful testimonies of how their lives have changed. That is why, here again, the final authority and criteria has to be the written Word of God. Testimonies, I believe, are primarily valuable for encouragement and edification of fellow believers, but they can never be the final evidence of the authenticity of one’s claims or beliefs.

Another example is Acts 18:28:
For he powerfully confuted the Jews, and that publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

This speaks of Apollos and all that he had to say was also based on that which was written. The refutation of the unbelievers was not based upon signs and wonders, but on Scripture.

One more example may be found in Acts 28:23-24:
And when they had appointed him a day, they came to him into his lodging in great number; to whom he expounded the matter, testifying the kingdom of God, and persuading them concerning Jesus, both from the law of Moses and from the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some disbelieved.​
Here, again, what Paul used was not experience or signs and wonders. What he used was Scripture. His whole focus was on the Law and the Prophets, the written Scriptures of that day, to authenticate what he was teaching and preaching. The response was that some believed and some disbelieved, but those who did believe came to believe on the basis of the exposition of the written Word of God.
The Apostle Peter
Besides what we see in the Book of Acts, a good example where the focus was on the Scriptures and not on experience is what Peter says:
For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: and this voice we ourselves heard borne out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount. And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; where unto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spoke from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:16-21).

Peter describes his experience at the Transfiguration when he saw the brightness of the Shechinah Glory manifested through Christ and heard the voice out of heaven saying, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” (1:16-18). Indeed, Peter’s experience on the Mount of Transfiguration was one of the highlights in that period of his life when he was with Jesus as a disciple. As convincing as the Transfiguration experience might have been to Peter, he points out that a far more authoritative base for believing that Jesus was the Messiah (and that this was not “cunningly devised fables”) is the Scriptures (1:19-21). Therefore, the written Scripture itself is what really made Peter’s faith “more sure

Peter does not encourage his readers to focus on Peter’s experience on the Transfiguration, but rather on the Word of God. And it is the Scriptures, he says, that “ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place.” What makes the Scriptures truly the final authority and the basis for “more sure” doctrine than experience is the fact that the Scriptures were not produced by the will of man, but are the product of the Holy Spirit who moved the writers to write exactly what he wanted them to record. Because the written Word of God is the ultimate product of the Holy Spirit the “word of prophecy [is] made more sure

Neither Peter’s great experience at the Mount of Transfiguration, nor Paul’s great experience on the Damascus Road, ever became the final authority for the faith of either. The final issue for both men was the written Word of God.
What about Signs and Wonders?

The response of some is: Isn’t the manifestation of the supernatural the evidence that this is a work of God, even if it is not found in Scripture? And are not signs and wonders the evidence of the work of God, even if the specific signs and wonders are not found in Scripture? Here, again, the answer is a decisive “no,” as the following two Scriptures again show. The first is Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by your name, and by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

One should notice what these false teachers were able to do in the name of a counterfeit Jesus. Obviously, when they say they did it “in your name,” it means that they did use the name of Jesus and probably used it quite frequently. No doubt, it was their so frequent use of Jesus’ name that deceived a great many. Furthermore, they were able to do three specific things: “prophesy” events which did come to pass; “cast out demons;” and, do “many mighty works,” such as miracles of healing and other signs and wonders. Yet, “in that day,” Jesus said to them: “I never knew you.” Here, you have all the ingredients of some of the things that are happening in Toronto, Kansas City, and elsewhere. The name of Jesus is heavily used in almost ritual-mantra style, all kinds of signs and wonders are claimed to occur, and yet, by themselves, these things do not prove anything because Satan can duplicate these. Here, again, it is important to get back to the written Word of God as the final criteria, the final source of authority, and the final foundation for all matters of faith and practice.

The Beguiling Serpent

Another example of this same area is 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 and 13-15:
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is toward Christ. For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye did not receive, or another gospel, which ye did not accept, ye do well to bear with him. .•.•. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for even Satan fashions himself into an angel of light. It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Paul emphasizes the fact that just as Satan was able to deceive Eve, even the believers of the Corinthian Church can also be deceived by Satan, perhaps not directly by Satan as Eve was, but certainly by Satan’s ministers (11:3). It should be kept in mind that the Corinthian Church was a church highly involved in sensationalism, signs and wonders, and the experiential. Because the Corinthian Church based so much about their lives on experience and the supernatural, that is what opened them up for deception by false teachers.

Paul labels three things by the word “another” (11:4): “another Jesus; another gospel; another spirit.” The Greek, however, has two different words involved here, both of which mean “another,” but they carry a slightly different shade of meaning. The first term means, “another of the same kind”; and, the second term means, “another of a different kind.” If we are to render verse four a bit more literally from the Greek, it would read as follows:
For if he that comes preaches another Jesus of the same kind, whom we did not preach, or if ye receive another spirit of a different kind, which ye did not receive, or another gospel of a different kind, which ye did not accept, ye do well to avoid him.​
What Paul says is that the gospel being presented is another gospel of a “different kind,” and the source is another spirit of a “different kind.” However, the Jesus being presented is another Jesus of the “same kind”; a Jesus that sounds like and seems like the Jesus of the New Testament, but is a carefully-disguised counterfeit.


It should be noted that the name being used to foster the work of deception is the name of Jesus. It is a counterfeit Jesus, but it is a carefully-disguised counterfeit so that one who does not judge by the Word of God is very easily deceived. Paul makes it clear that those who are propagating another Jesus are “false apostles” (11:13); however, that is not the way they appear because they fashion themselves to sound like, seem like, and act like real ministers of Christ. By so doing, they are reflecting their true lord, Satan, who is the angel of “this darkness” (Eph. 6:12) by fashioning himself to appear as “an angel of light” (11:14). Paul says that this should not be surprising for if Satan will fashion himself to appear as an angel of light, certainly his own ministers will fashion themselves to appear as ministers of righteousness; but, in the end, they will receive their judgment (11:15).

Again, Satan would not be very successful in his work of deception, especially with believers, if his ministers were clearly and without question “out in far left field.” And to carry out the work of deception, they must certainly focus on the name of Jesus and not on some other name. Yet the mere usage of the name “Jesus,” even in the context of words like “praise,” “glory,” etc., does not and should not authenticate anyone’s ministry. Here, again, our final authority must be the Scriptures and not experience, signs and wonders, unusual activities, or strange noises.
 
Upvote 0
P

Pilgrim and stranger

Guest
Seducing spirits
The strange phenomenon going on today, such as the Toronto Phenomenon, should not have surprised people who are truly into the Word, for in 1 Timothy 4:1, Paul declared:
But the Spirit says expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons.​
There is, of course, biblical doctrine, but, here, Paul talks about the fact that Satan has his own system of doctrine--referred to as “doctrines of demons.” Those who become enamored with “doctrines of demons” end up “giving heed to seducing spirits.” What are these doctrines of demons? They are such doctrines that are coming out of Toronto and elsewhere, which find no basis in the written Word of God. They are based on teachers claiming to have received special, divine revelation from God that, therefore, must be accepted as new truth.

Those who involve themselves in such “doctrines of demons” end up being seduced by demonic spirits. Again, there are those who will come and defend these actions based upon how happy, good, or joyful they feel, assuming that such good feelings must be of the Lord. But all this shows is that they have, indeed, been seduced by demons. Again, Satan would not be very successful in his program of deception if his strategy was to make people feel bad. That is not going to attract much of an audience. What will attract an audience is people who can do things to make you feel good, even if the feeling is nothing more than an emotional release. Yet if the feeling can be ascribed to a supernatural work of God, the recipient has been deceived.
Biblical Boundaries
The Bible itself gives us a major admonition by which we must judge all that claims to be of the Lord: the written Word of God. In concluding this study, we will look at two key passages. The first is 1 Corinthians 4:6:
Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.​
Again, it should be emphasized that Paul says this to a church that had a strong tendency to move towards the sensational and the experiential. Chapters 12-14 make it clear that the Corinthian Church was by far the most Pentecostal/Charismatic of any church we have in the New Testament. They certainly emphasized the gifts of the Spirit in a way we do not read about in the other epistles to other churches. The focus on the experiential showed that they were not spiritual but carnal (1 Cor. 3:1-3). Paul must especially admonish a church of this nature “not to go beyond the things which are written.” That which is written, of course, is the Holy Scriptures. For any new manifestation or phenomenon, they must go back and test it by the Word of God. The fact is that the laughing and animal noise phenomena are found nowhere in Scripture. It is something that goes beyond that which is written and must be rejected out of hand.

One does not need to take a plane trip to Toronto to “experience” whether or not something is of God. It is sufficient to know that it is not in Scripture; they have gone beyond that which is written and, therefore, it is already evident that these things are not of God. And what happens to those who go beyond that which is written? Paul declares that they become “puffed up for the one against the other.” They develop a spiritual pride that is evident when they go around claiming to have a greater measure of the Holy Spirit than other believers. As a result, they divide all believers into two categories: those who have “it,” and those who do not. I guess I am one who does not have “it.” For that, I am glad, because the “it” is not found in Scripture. After observing and talking with so many who claim to have “it,” I have not been provoked to jealousy to desire it in any way. I am quite content with the spirituality described in Scripture--striving to attain it, using the Word and nothing else.



There is one more Scripture that must be dealt with in this discussion, and that is 2 Timothy 3:12-4:4:
Yea, and all that would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you abide in the things which you have learned and have been assured of, knowing of whom you have learned them; and that from a babe you have known the sacred writings which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness; that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work. I charge you in the sight of God, and of Christ Jesus, who shall judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be urgent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.​
Paul gives a simple message that is largely ignored by much of the modern movements today: that those who seek to live godly in this life will suffer persecution (3:12). In today’s prevalent preaching of “name it and claim it” and a “health and wealth” gospel, you do not find the preachers warning that those who really want to live spiritual, godly lives in accordance with Scripture will endure persecution. The truth is that it is not health and wealth that are a sign of divine favor or spirituality. Rather, it is being persecuted for the faith that is a sign of a truly godly person.

Paul, then, issues a warning that as time goes on there will be more and more false teachers, who are truly impostors and will go around deceiving others, many of whom will be deceived themselves (3:13). They may well believe that they are “God’s anointed” and keep repeating it to their critics, but the fact remains that they have become deceived themselves and, therefore, proceed to deceive others as well.

So what is it that will protect Timothy from being deceived by false teachers? Paul answers that question in 3:14-17. He encourages Timothy to continue in what he has learned (3:14) and he has been trained from childhood in “the sacred writings” (3:15). Notice that we see the same emphasis found in 1 Corinthians 4:6 here: the written Word of God, “the sacred writings

There will be two things that will keep Timothy from being deceived: his knowledge of the sacred writings, and his continuing to “abide” in the sacred writings. The word “abide” has the basic meaning, “to make your home.” He is to make his home in the sacred writings. His focus is not to be on personal experiences, no matter how supernatural they may be. As already seen in Matthew 7:22-23, his focus should not be on signs and wonders that can lead to deception as well, but he must abide in the written Word of God. What Peter said in 2•Peter 1:20-21, Paul says in 3:16: that the Scriptures are the inspired Word of God and, therefore, are profitable in all areas of life. And just how profitable are the written Scriptures? Paul answers that question, saying that the Scriptures make the man of God to be complete himself, while also making him “furnished completely unto every good work” (3:17).

What this verse teaches we must not miss. The Scriptures are sufficient to make one thoroughly complete. There is no need to try to receive some supernatural “zapping” from some spirit world. There is no need to spend money to travel to Toronto for someone to lay hands on you until you either fall into uncontrollable, unstoppable laughter or make animal sounds. The written Scriptures are able thoroughly to complete you and furnish you for every work that you need to do. You can become spiritual and mature in the faith through the Scriptures alone. However, this will take the discipline of studying the Word of God, spending hours, days, weeks, years of a lifetime to comprehend more and more of the Word of God. But in this technological age, people have become lazy and, therefore, seek the “instant breakfast” approach to spirituality, trying to find a “zapping” experience to get “it,” and sometimes even feeling they have become a god themselves. By the authority of this passage, I can declare that such experiences will not lead to spirituality, but instead will lead them to being deceived and then continuing to deceive others as well.

Because Timothy is knowledgeable of the Scriptures, because the Scriptures are able thoroughly to furnish him for every good work, Paul then admonishes Timothy to go ahead and do the work of the ministry--reproving, rebuking, exhorting, and teaching (4:1-2). But this teaching is not done by any “word of knowledge,” or divine revelation outside of Scripture; rather, this is done by the written Word of God as Paul already stated in 3:16.

Then, Paul again declares what will happen in the latter days and, unfortunately, what Paul described has, indeed, finally happened (4:3-4). Paul states that a day will come when believers will no longer be able to “endure the sound doctrine” (4:3). And what is “sound doctrine”? In contrast to the “doctrines of demons” (1 Tim. 4:1), which are doctrines based upon the experiential and the supernatural that go beyond that which is written, sound doctrine is that which is based upon and comes from “the sacred writings.” Indeed, we are living in a day when the majority of believers in our churches simply cannot “endure sound doctrine

Television, having helped render the unbelieving world’s minds mushy, has done the same thing for believers, as Christian television only imitates its secular counterpart. In place of expository teaching of the Word, there is Christian amusement and Christian talk shows that carry little if any doctrinal substance. A Charismatic speaker who causes people to become hysterical, or to act like animals, or to fall down, can fill up whole stadiums with thousands upon thousands of people, whom he eventually asks to empty their pockets for the offering. But one who comes to expound the Word of God to impart an understanding of the Scriptures and sound doctrine will draw a relatively tiny audience. Indeed, the time and day has arrived when men cannot “endure sound doctrine

So how will they try to meet their spiritual needs? Paul goes on to explain that they “will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts.” In other words, they will pursue teachers who will tell them what they really want to hear (and being persecuted for godly living is not something believers want to hear). They will pursue teachers who will promise them supernatural experiences. They will pursue teachers who will promise them health and wealth by merely using a formula of naming-and-claiming it; teachers who promise materialism in a spiritually-wrapped package are the ones they will pursue. But they will strangely avoid having to sit through in-depth teaching of the Word of God. Indeed, that day has finally arrived.

Paul tells us the result of not enduring sound doctrine and pursuing false teachers (4:4): first, they will “turn away their ears from the truth,” and, second, they will “turn aside unto fables.” What are fables? Fables are, again, teachings and doctrines outside of Scripture. As we saw earlier, Peter said he did not follow “cunningly devised fables,” because what he was teaching and preaching was based upon the written Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit. The reason Timothy will not be swept aside to follow fables is because he bases his entire life, teaching and ministry on “the sacred writings.” Those who go beyond the things that are written will end up following after fables. Again, fables are teachings that we do not find in Scripture and, therefore, they either originate with man or with the demonic world and, thereby, become doctrines of demons. Fables are the false postulations of experiences and actions that are found nowhere in Scripture.
Conclusion
The Toronto Phenomenon is a fable because it goes beyond the things that are written. We must reject it because it is not based upon “the sacred writings” and, therefore, cannot pass the test of “sound doctrine
On the basis of the written Word of God, I call upon all those who have been caught up in this phenomenon to let 2 Timothy 4:4 be rephrased in your life as follows: Turn away from the fables, and turn aside to the truth.
 
Upvote 0

heartofheaven

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2004
802
49
63
Visit site
✟16,201.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Pilgrim and stranger said:
So what are your thoughts of the Toronto 'blessing' and does Scripture support your claims?
A true prophet is ridiculed,mocked,and not accepted..Luke 4 ...for the most part..my advice,is to keep going no matter how much your put down and not accepted,for you will be in GOOD Company!!....Jesus,Elijah,Micaiah,Paul,John.etc.....Jesus says in Luke 4~The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor,He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted,to proclaim liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord......this is our calling,and anointing, not barking,.............also, the Lord brought me to the book of Numbers,on Balaam, at a time ,when church was at the beginning stages of this movement, and I asked the Lord about it then, and when He brought me to Balaam, He showed me from Jude, how they go the way of balaam, seduced,~from being in a trance,~ then sin.you would have to do a study on it,like I did, but it is worth it,there was alot more to Balaam then what you first read, you gotta dig deeper ~he was a false prophet,and into divination,and that is what they are doing in these meetings...........divination. I have to be careful not to offend others here on this pentecostal /charismatic area of the forum, for I have been taken wrong allready,but, I will continue to write as the Lord leads me, for I have been pentecostal for quite awhile well..............sort of!!God bless,Bonnie
 
Upvote 0

CWLite

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2004
438
18
44
Scarborough, Ontario
✟15,664.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Actually, both of you better be careful, you are comming extremely close on slandering your brothers. I have been to the Toronto Vineyard a couple of times, and well, it was very different. Some had odd behaviors, but I didn't dare cast judgment of fruit I couldn't see. I have seen my fare share of supernatural stuff in my young life in the charasmatic church, and I know what is true.

Have you ever felt the power of God hit you with a wave of heat, almost knocking you off your feet? It really changes the way you think. I have had a prophet lay his hands on me, pray for me, and push me to my back. I felt nothing, never pretended to either. I was going to get up immediatly but I didn't, my mouth started moving and I was prophesying over myself. Sort of like in Saul and David's day when they joined the priest and began to prophesy.

I can understand why people laugh uncontrolably, or behave like animals. I would never do that though, unless God Himself told me to. When the Holy Spirit comes on someone, people recieve different manifistations. Some prophesy, some collapse or shake, and some behave drunk. When someone is drunk (wine or the spirit) they do wierd things, like laugh out of control or bark if someone told them too. To me, it is hard to say it is divination when half the place gets healed of something or another. If satan is running rampant in there, why is God's power changing people's lives for the better, no side effects.

If I am to criticise the Toronto Vineyard, it would be on some of the congegation going to excess. But they are my brother's and sister's in Christ, and I am going to put my attention on serving the Lord and winning the lost. When we focus on what the left hand is doing, the right hand is in trouble of cursing himself for causing dessention among the body.

Just remain in the vine and let God do the pruning.
 
Upvote 0

James1979

Regular Member
Mar 3, 2004
557
16
✟794.00
Faith
Christian
Yes that's true. The greater works were when Peter had preached the word of God and 3,000 were saved compared to when Jesus was the perfect preacher and hardly no one was becoming saved. Of course Peter who is one of God's vessel could not save these indiviuals nor convert them, that's entirely the work of God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

12volt_man

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2004
7,339
260
✟9,150.00
Faith
Christian
What saith scripture?

Scripture saith: "Run away from these guys as fast as your little legs will carry you!"

Seriously, we're told in scripture to consider them anathema and have nothing to do with them.

The Bible goes on to tell us that those who support them will be considered by God to be "partakers with them in their evil deeds".
 
Upvote 0
B

Bingle

Guest
Sorry that this will be highly offensive but the only time people acted like animals in the Bible were when they were demon possessed. When Jesus had finished casting them out they were always 'sitting and in their right mind.' Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that the Holy Spirit 'takes over' someone to make them prophesy or speak in tongues or what have you. I fear that this Toronto blessing is rather a curse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12volt_man
Upvote 0

12volt_man

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2004
7,339
260
✟9,150.00
Faith
Christian
Bingle said:
Sorry that this will be highly offensive but the only time people acted like animals in the Bible were when they were demon possessed. When Jesus had finished casting them out they were always 'sitting and in their right mind.' Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that the Holy Spirit 'takes over' someone to make them prophesy or speak in tongues or what have you. I fear that this Toronto blessing is rather a curse.

Bingle, that's not offensive, that's the truth. You're absolutely right.

Doesn't scripture teach us that one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is self control? Why then do these guys teach that being out of control is evidence of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit?
 
Upvote 0

gitlance

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2004
2,781
193
Earth
✟19,057.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Bingle said:
Sorry that this will be highly offensive but the only time people acted like animals in the Bible were when they were demon possessed. When Jesus had finished casting them out they were always 'sitting and in their right mind.' Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that the Holy Spirit 'takes over' someone to make them prophesy or speak in tongues or what have you. I fear that this Toronto blessing is rather a curse.

Yes! That is the truth. Thanks for speaking up!
 
Upvote 0

Andyman_1970

Trying to walk in His dust...............
Feb 2, 2004
4,069
208
53
The Natural State
Visit site
✟12,840.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe that Scriptural justification for these actions are when Paul refers to "angelic tongues" or "angelic language" - since little is said about this in the Scriptures some license is taken with this term. However if you do a search on the Hebrew term Kedusha, which is the angelic language you'll be surprised as to what it really is.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

CITFH

Regular Member
Oct 15, 2004
267
20
43
The "D"
Visit site
✟8,000.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Nice post Pilgrim. :thumbsup:

All I can say is that adrenaline is a powerful drug...and people do silly thing when gathered together a lot of times (just look at baseball! ;))

I think that God has made us in his image in that we have constituent parts, but are a whole. I have had EMOTIONAL reactions to TRUTH. I have had a TRUTH lead my BODY to action. They all interconnect. I feel that this "doctrine" asks us to develop a momentary dissociative disorder :confused:...not good in any language, bark, moo, or grunt.

-CITFH
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.