THE TITHES

[RDKirk]

I am arguing AGAINST Tithing, in fact I am looking for a pro-tithing opponent who will debate me on video. We don't need to meet, but we post alternate short videos to youtube on the topic of tithing.

What's going to happen, as I've seen happening in these kinds of forums (and computer bulletin boards even before the Internet), is that the tithe-promoters will attempt to conflate "tithe" with Christian giving and then erect a "you're against giving" strawman.

 

[robert skynner]

What's going to happen, as I've seen happening in these kinds of forums (and computer bulletin boards even before the Internet), is that the tithe-promoters will attempt to conflate "tithe" with Christian giving and then erect a "you're against giving" strawman.

I know. That's why the debate title (if anyone accepts my offer) will be: "Does the Bible command Christians to pay tithes today?" Or some similar title which I agree to. My first point in the debate will be to define both tithing and alms (giving), pointing out the differences. I do have two tithing debates on my YouTube channel: Christian Comedy Channel, in the tithing playlist. The first is an audio only debate, the second only lasted for 40 minutes as my opponent renounced his position on tithing to conclude the debate. Am I allowed to post links in these forums? Or is posting links against the rules?

 

[1watchman]

Thanks for a bit more clarity, robert. That makes some of your comments more clear; however, my point is that "tithing" and ALL the OT religion is only a type and foreshadow of all that we have in the NT, and not for the Church in this age. So, the subject seems irrelevant to me; and we need to see what God has given in fulfillment of the Israelite religion and the NEW testament for the Christian era. We are to give of our means and substance as we are blessed and feel led, to honor God and help in the ministry, and service to the poor, etc. No one should dictate that to a faithful Christian. I hope we are on the same page now.

 

[robert skynner]

Thanks for a bit more clarity, robert. That makes some of your comments more clear; however, my point is that "tithing" and ALL the OT religion is only a type and foreshadow of all that we have in the NT, and not for the Church in this age. So, the subject seems irrelevant to me; and we need to see what God has given in fulfillment of the Israelite religion and the NEW testament for the Christian era. We are to give of our means and substance as we are blessed and feel led, to honor God and help in the ministry, and service to the poor, etc. No one should dictate that to a faithful Christian. I hope we are on the same page now.

Thank you Watchman for your post, I agree that tithing is not for Christians or for today, however, here in the south west of the UK where I live, tithing (as well as attending a church building and near blind obedience to a pastor), are virtual evangelical sacraments, which determine the state of a person's holiness and walk with God. I am a humanist, not a Christian, but I have been told repeatedly, that for my pointing out error in local Churches, such as fornication, compulsory tithing and various pedos being given access to kids, that I will burn in hell for ever, and that for me repentance is impossible, I will BURN. I am glad that I have no part in such an unloving and hateful religion.

 

[1watchman]

I surely would want nothing to do with hateful religions either, and there are extremes in all professions; so I subscribe to Bible-only as my authority, for my God will not hold me or anyone responsible for anything He has not given in His Word ---that is by taking "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" as He tells us. You might visit the sound site at www.biblecounsel.net to see some of what God intends for His testimony in the world (a fellowship I am with worldwide). One can ask questions there. Look up always, for God cares always; and He loves you, even if you don't yet know Him! - 1watchman

 

[SistrNChrist]

Thank you Watchman for your post, I agree that tithing is not for Christians or for today, however, here in the south west of the UK where I live, tithing (as well as attending a church building and near blind obedience to a pastor), are virtual evangelical sacraments, which determine the state of a person's holiness and walk with God. I am a humanist, not a Christian, but I have been told repeatedly, that for my pointing out error in local Churches, such as fornication, compulsory tithing and various pedos being given access to kids, that I will burn in hell for ever, and that for me repentance is impossible, I will BURN. I am glad that I have no part in such an unloving and hateful religion.

While I agree with you on a lot of points, I do question why you have such an objection to people attending churches. As I understand it, even the early NT church met regularly. I will also say that God did not intend for the Christian life to be a solitary one, but rather one where there is communion (and by that, I mean gathering, not the sacrament) with fellow believers. The blind obedience part is dangerous for sure, because even pastors aren't infallible and their word shouldn't be taken as gospel truth, but rather we are to see if the words of the pastor line up with scripture, and always err on the side of scripture. Hope that makes some things clear for you.

 

[robert skynner]

While I agree with you on a lot of points, I do question why you have such an objection to people attending churches. As I understand it, even the early NT church met regularly. I will also say that God did not intend for the Christian life to be a solitary one, but rather one where there is communion (and by that, I mean gathering, not the sacrament) with fellow believers. The blind obedience part is dangerous for sure, because even pastors aren't infallible and their word shouldn't be taken as gospel truth, but rather we are to see if the words of the pastor line up with scripture, and always err on the side of scripture. Hope that makes some things clear for you.

The point of Christianity, here in Plymouth in the UK, in churches which I have visited is to entertain goats! There is no fellowship, no love, the lack of love is one of the best arguments against "local Churches," proving that its fake. As for doctrine, many of the so called evangelicals or fundementalists here are either modalists or tri-theists, as for heaven, people earn heaven by their good works such as paying a tithe (a direct debit almost guarantees you salvation by the way). The local paper every few months or so reports on another sex scandal within local churches. I don't need this religion as it's obviously fake.

 

[SistrNChrist]

The point of Christianity, here in Plymouth in the UK, in churches which I have visited is to entertain goats! There is no fellowship, no love, the lack of love is one of the best arguments against "local Churches," proving that its fake. As for doctrine, many of the so called evangelicals or fundementalists here are either modalists or tri-theists, as for heaven, people earn heaven by their good works such as paying a tithe (a direct debit almost guarantees you salvation by the way). The local paper every few months or so reports on another sex scandal within local churches. I don't need this religion as it's obviously fake.

That's a shame that you judge an entire religion based on the bad apples, and don't really get to know those Christians that legitimately practice what they preach. I get you, because I used to feel that way until 13 years ago, when I met actual Bible believing Christians who were nothing like the ones you talk about. Hopefully the same happens to you, and you meet people who truly live out the words of Christ.

 

[robert skynner]

That's a shame that you judge an entire religion based on the bad apples, and don't really get to know those Christians that legitimately practice what they preach.

I feel that discernment is important.

 

[RDKirk]

I've exposed a paedophile within numerous Churches, as well as numerous cases of sexual immorality in local churches, including a pastor and evangelist both sleeping with the same women. Not one church has stood with me, every single church I've e-mailed (about 200-300) in both Belfast, Northern Ireland and across Devon and Cornwall in the UK, has ignored these serious sins and not one church has stood with me or by me. Every church has either rebuked me for being unforgiving or has ignored me. I'm done with churches, I'm not like them as I have morals and standards.

Is your purpose for participating in this forum, therefore, to turn other people from Christ?