The tip of the ice berg

[ottawak]

According to the vast majority of evolutionists I've spoken to, and been lectured by, evolution is fact. I said that using adaptation as evidence for macro evolution is intellectually dishonest. I don't presume to know if every evolutionist believes adaptation proves evolution, but so far I've not come across one who does not.

No one with any understanding of science at all, whatever side of the issue he is on, believes that evidence "proves" a scientific theory. Adaptation demonstrates a mechanism to the observer which is theoretically competent to produce changes on the macro-scale and in a manner which is consistent with fossil and genetic evidence. That doesn't mean that it is "proven." You don't get that with a scientific theory. The best you can hope for in science is an explanation which seems to describe the phenomenon adequately and has not yet been contradicted by empirical evidence.

 

[ottawak]

Tour is also fearless. He joined more than a thousand other scientists in signing the “Scientific Dissent from Darwinism.” More recently, he has become a thorn in the side of the origin of life research community, offering blunt assessments of the current state of origin of life research.

So what? He's still not a biblical creationist. Against what evil is he showing such bravery?

 

[BPPLEE]

So what? He's still not a biblical creationist. Against what evil is he showing such bravery?

You said " his criticisms seem mostly directed against abiogenesis." I was just pointing out his position on Darwinism

 

[Astrid]

According to the vast majority of evolutionists I've spoken to, and been lectured by, evolution is fact. I said that using adaptation as evidence for macro evolution is intellectually dishonest. I don't presume to know if every evolutionist believes adaptation proves evolution, but so far I've not come across one who does not.

No, that is NOT what you said.

 

[Astrid]

Tour is also fearless. He joined more than a thousand other scientists in signing the “Scientific Dissent from Darwinism.” More recently, he has become a thorn in the side of the origin of life research community, offering blunt assessments of the current state of origin of life research.

DARWINISM, if such exists, is about150 years out of date.

I bet theres plenty who dissent from Newtonism too.

But none (zero, 0, goose egg) can present even one fact
contrary to ToE..

 

[ottawak]

You said " his criticisms seem mostly directed against abiogenesis." I was just pointing out his position on Darwinism

Well, that's fine, since "Darwinism" is no more than an historical curiosity.

 

[Astrid]

James Tour is a micro biologist. Supposedly it is impossible to be a biologist and a Christian at the same time. He has also something to say about evolution. I've seen some of the remarks directed against Professor Tour. Aristotle said something to the effect that when someone can't win an argument on facts, they resort to insults. Jim Tour can testify to that.

Professor Tour focuses on abiogenesis because that is his field of expertise. He has also entered the evolution discussion.

Show us one example of someone saying its impossible to
be a biologist and christian at the same time, and I will quit
the forum never to return.
And you? When you cannot do it will you admit
you falsified the statement, and quit the forum?
No?

 

[BPPLEE]

DARWINISM, if such exists, is about150 years out of date.

I bet theres plenty who dissent from Newtonism too.

But none (zero, 0, goose egg) can present even one fact
contrary to ToE..

Ottawak said "What's the point of brining James Tour into it? So far as I know he is not a biblical creationism and his criticisms seem mostly directed against abiogenesis." I was just pointing out one of his other views

 

[BPPLEE]

Show us one example of someone saying its impossible to
be a biologist and christian at the same time, and I will quit
the forum never to return.
And you? When you cannot do it will you admit
you falsified the statement, and quit the forum?
No?

The forum wouldn't be the same without you

 

[Shemjaza]

Tour is also fearless. He joined more than a thousand other scientists in signing the “Scientific Dissent from Darwinism.” More recently, he has become a thorn in the side of the origin of life research community, offering blunt assessments of the current state of origin of life research.

But how many are called Steve? And how many actually study biological science?

But most importantly why can't they present evidence to justify another option or specifically rule out evolution?

 

[BPPLEE]

So what? He's still not a biblical creationist. Against what evil is he showing such bravery?

He has faced fierce criticism Professor James Tour: A “Liar for Jesus”? | Evolution News

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

He has faced fierce criticism Professor James Tour: A “Liar for Jesus”? | Evolution News

Still doesn't make him a creationist, nor does it particularly vindicate him for any of his views about the origin of life hypotheses. The theory of evolution and abiogenesis are two separate things.

 

[BPPLEE]

But how many are called Steve? And how many actually study biological science?

But most importantly why can't they present evidence to justify another option or specifically rule out evolution?

I didn't think what I linked had anything to do with Project Steve whatever that is. I was just pointing out that Tour's views covered more than abiogenesis

 

[BPPLEE]

Still doesn't make him a creationist, nor does it particularly vindicate him for any of his views about the origin of life hypotheses. The theory of evolution and abiogenesis are two separate things.

I never said he was a creationist whatever that is

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I never said he was a creationist whatever that is

I highly doubt that, on sub-forum title 'Creation and Evolution', and by many posts on this thread alone and others that I've seen you on, that you don't know what a creationist is.

Although you do sweep anything related to the theory of evolution with the broad brush of 'Darwinism', so maybe you don't know.

 

[Shemjaza]

I didn't think what I linked had anything to do with Project Steve whatever that is. I was just pointing out that Tour's views covered more than abiogenesis

But you did link to the "scientific" dissent from evolution list, so I thought I'd point out a less vague list of people.

It's very odd that his views aren't clearly defined.

 

[BPPLEE]

I highly doubt that, on sub-forum title 'Creation and Evolution', and by many posts on this thread alone and others that I've seen you on, that you don't know what a creationist is.

Although you do sweep anything related to the theory of evolution with the broad brush of 'Darwinism', so maybe you don't know.

I didn't sweep anything under the broad brush of Darwinism that is what the link I posted referred to. Isn't Theistic Evolution a form of creation? Are people who believe in that Creationists?

 

[Astrid]

The forum wouldn't be the same without you

Like not having a tack rock in the shoe.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I didn't sweep anything under the broad brush of Darwinism that is what the link I posted referred to. Isn't Theistic Evolution a form of creation? Are people who believe in that Creationists?

Except that if you didn't, you'd have known that Darwinian evolution has long been superseded by the modern theory of evolution. Darwinian evolution specifically refers to evolution has thought of and evidenced by Charles Darwin. It is no longer used as the theory of evolution.

And semantically, theistic evolution is and isn't creationism, since it does and also doesn't fit the 'models' of creation.

 

[BPPLEE]

But you did link to the "scientific" dissent from evolution list, so I thought I'd point out a less vague list of people.

It's very odd that his views aren't clearly defined.

Not all of my views are clearly defined.