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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

Hentenza

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Jesus said to not break the least of these commandments as it affects our status in heaven, i.e. there or not Mat5:19-20. We were not even born when Jesus died at the Cross.
Again, post a verse where the 4th commandment was repeated in Jesus two love commandments. All you have to do to prove your argument is yo post one verse. If it was so important that you and your church condemn Christians as sinners for not keeping the sabbath then you better have some solid evidence to back that fallacy up.
lol Time to change your c&p since all of these verses have been addressed already.
 
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Carl Emerson

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And yet Carl, since you are I were kids, we have been taught by this world's religious sects and businesses "who come in Christ's Name", that Jesus "Refused to Comply with His Father's Laws" concerning the adulterous woman.

Personally I have not come across such teaching.

Jesus could only do what He saw the Father doing.

The Fathers heart of compassion did not want the woman stoned.

Jesus saw this and trusted the conviction of the Spirit to turn the hearts of the accusers as He wrote on the sand.

The Father was expressing the Law of the Spirit - not the OT Law of sin and death.

The OT law was a temporary measure that was passing away, a shadow to point to the Law of the Spirit in Christ.

So Jesus was technically ignoring the written OT law in obedience to the Father.

Jesus had expressed a compassion principle to bypass the OT Law anyway, so His inaction was sinless.

This is the sad fact we are witnessing here - folks making an idol of the OT Law and missing out on the Law of the Spirit direct from the Fathers heart even when His Spirit is personally indwelling them. In that they are bewitched as Paul said.

Walking in the Spirit by seeing what the Father is doing leads to a wonderful life of celebrating His Glory as we walk in the Way and fulfil the pre-prepared works He has ordained for us to walk in.

Sadly this is not often taught as our teachers have been elevated to positions of spiritual responsibility without first learning to die daily, hear the Father daily, and walk in the Spirit as Jesus walked.
 
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Servus

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Jesus was not a sinner. He broke no commandments. He said so Himself John15:10 why do we not believe Him John8:46-47
Did Paul break a commandment when he said circumcision was no longer necessary? Funny how Paul's authority is more accepted than Jesus' authority over commandments.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Did Paul break a commandment when he said circumcision was no longer necessary? Funny how Paul's authority is more accepted than Jesus' authority over commandments.
Paul said circumcision was not a means of salvation, it never was, why he was constantly correcting the Jews. . He never once taught one didn't need to get circumcised. He in fact got Timothy circumcised. It was just no longer necessary to get access to the cure for forgiveness of sins. Jesus at the Cross did away with all animal sacrifices Heb10:1-10 Heb9:10-15 so instead of bring an animal sacrifice for sins to an earthy priest, we all have the ability to go to Jesus when we sin or break God's law. True repentance means a sorry heart and a change of direction- moving away from sin, abiding in Christ.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Teaching Spiritual things is a Spiritual gift. God said it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:12), so your understanding is wrong. You shouldn't share it anymore. It is a sin to teach falsely.

Well there is a judgement if I ever heard one...

Time to read Romans 14 again...

Strange that what you went on to say I agreed with.

The matter that seems to elude folks is that Jesus never sinned yet broke the OT Law as John clearly said.

This is because the Will of the Father Trumps the OT Law which was unable to prescribe what was a righteous act in every circumstance.

This is why the OT Law was passing away and being replaced with the Indwelling presence of God Himself so believers could have an ear on what God willed.

Jesus could only do what He saw the father doing and we are to do the same.

He then is our guide and the OT Law is no longer required.

Obeying the voice of the Father is our ultimate responsibility.

There is nothing new in this - we see Isaiah doing this in Isaiah 3:5.

You wont read that requirement in the OT Law.
 
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Servus

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Paul said circumcision was not a means of salvation, it never was, why he was constantly correcting the Jews. . He never once taught one didn't need to get circumcised.
Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 1 Corinthians 7:18. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Galatians 5:2. In Philippians 3:2 Paul called circumcision mutilation.
He in fact got Timothy circumcised.
That was before he started teaching against it.
It was just no longer necessary to get access to the cure for forgiveness of sins.
Irrelevant, God commanded that it be done.
Sounds like you're saying that Jesus dying on the cross did away with the law.
 
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HIM

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There is nothing new in this - we see Isaiah doing this in Isaiah 3:5.

You wont read that requirement in the OT Law.
What requirement?
Isa 3:5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I think its a misunderstanding of these verses and not looking at all the context.

The Jews were teaching in order for someone to be saved Acts 15:1 and hear the gospel of Christ Gal2:3, one had to be circumcised. Circumcision was never meant as a means of salvation and can't save anyone, no law can save us, the law of God points out our sins, so we don't cover them and die in our sins Heb10:26-30, circumcision in the OT was the way to get access to the cure for sins, one needed to be circumcised, in order to get access to the cure of animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins at an earthy temple with an earthy priest.

Jesus took away this wall of separation at the Cross

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.


Sin did not change after the Cross, it is still breaking God's laws1 John3:4 James2:11 but through the death of Christ He took away that wall of separation through circumcision where everyone could get access to the cure for sins- Jesus Christ.

The Jews however were still teaching that one needed to be circumcised in order to be saved. This is what Paul was constantly correcting. Saving oneself apart from Christ is impossible.


Sounds like you're saying that Jesus dying on the cross did away with the law.
This is what a lot of people teach sadly I believe to their own destruction Mat 5:19 Mat7:23 Rev22:14-15

If we look at what the Bible says and have a good understanding of the different laws from the OT, one would not come to this conclusion.

There are two sets of laws, the law that defines what sin is and a law that was given as a cure for sin when breaking the law that describes what sin is. Many teach its the same law, but that is nonsensical and not what the Bible teaches.

The Ten Commandments is the Law that shows us our sins. 1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7 Mat5:19-30 Why it is under the mercy seat of Christ Exo25:21. The law of Moses written by the hand of Moses that contained the ordinances 2 Chronicles 33:8 and all the blessings and curses for breaking the law of God, the Ten Commandments was placed beside the ark of the covenant there as a witness against Deut 31:24-26. The law of God, the Ten Commandment was not written by a human, it was written by the God of the Universe, it is His own Testimony Exo31:18 and it is holy, just and good Rom7:12 perfect for converting the soul Psa19:7 how could the Holy Spirit of Truth personally write anything less, its impossible if we understand His character.

The law that is perfect and holy never turns into the law that was contrary and against. Its one of the reasons why I beleive we have this warning of Paul's writings 2Peter3:16 because people take what God made holy and try to turn into something that was contrary and against. Its really an attack on the character of God.

The only laws that the Bible said that were done away with are the laws that were contained in ordinances handwritten by Moses

Eph2: 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,
Col2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

2 Chro 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”


These were all shadows that pointed forward to Jesus and the Bible tells us what they are so we do not need to take something that is holy and blessed by God and try to remove it when God did not


Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

There is a Law that not a Jot or Tittle can pass until all is fulfilled when Jesus comes and removes all sin and sinners once and for all. So that obviously cannot be the law of Moses because we very clearly see that the law he wrote that was contained in ordinances ended at the Cross.

That leaves the Ten Commandments UNEDITED not a jot or tittle can pass, why it is under the mercy seat of Christ Exo25:21 and shown in heaven Rev 15:5 and revealed at the last trumpet the standard of Judgment for all people Rev 11:18-19. Jesus is our High Priest now, instead of taking our animal sacrifices for sin to an earthy priest we can pray directly to Jesus who is at His heavenly Temple Heb8:1-5. Covering our sins, no one will prosper Pro28:13 because a record of our sins will still be shown in heaven if we do that. However if we repent and turn from sin and abide in Him, following in His example, He washes away all of our sins and we can stand before Jesus spotless without a record of sins. However when we remove laws that God did not, heaven and earth will pass before a jot or tittle can pass from the law, in the end it only hurts oneself, because it doesn't make the law go away, it just covers one sin where one does not receive mercy Pro28:13 Exo20:6

Its best to let God be God. God defined His laws in the most awesome way, spoken by God, written by God, it is His Testimony which the entire Bible is about, John 5:39 who has a greater testimony than God Himself Exo31:18, No one, why His words judge us John12:48 Exo20:1 James2:11-12 Rev11:18-19 Rev22:14-15
 
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Servus

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The bottom line is contrary to God's command Paul said circumcision was no longer necessary. No longer necessary period. Sabbatarians are perfectly fine with accepting this abloishment of one of God's most fundamental commands from Paul.

Yet they will not / can not accept that Jesus could have abolished the sabbath commandment.

When Paul abolishes one of God's fundamental commandments, it's not said that he sinned by doing so.

But when it's said that Jesus abolished a commandment, that's supposed to be impossible because that would mean he sinned, and Jesus never sinned.

Makes no sense whatsoever.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The bottom line is contrary to God's command Paul said circumcision was no longer necessary. No longer necessary period. Sabbatarians are perfectly fine with accepting this abloishment of one of God's most fundamental commands from Paul

Again context,. He never said circumcision was abolished. He said it wasn't a means for salvation or to hear the word of God. Never was.
Yet they will not / can not accept that Jesus could have abolished the sabbath commandment.
You would need a Text for that. God promised not a jot or tittle can pass, what God blessed man cannot reverse Num23:20 even if its inconvenient for some
When Paul abolishes one of God's fundamental commandments, it's not said that he sinned by doing so.
Find where Paul "abolished" circumcision. He had Timothy circumcised , obviously you are misunderstanding the Scriptures.
But when it's said that Jesus abolished a commandment, that's supposed to be impossible because that would mean he sinned, and Jesus never sinned.
Jesus never abolished the 4th commandment I guess that's why you keep just quoting "you"
Makes no sense whatsoever.
It doesn't. Forgetting what God said to Remember, the commandment that points to God our Creator Exo 20:11 the God we are to worship Rev 14:7 God our Sanctifier Eze 20:12 a sign when keeping is between God and His people Eze20:20 Isa56:6 , following in the example of God Gen2:1-3 Exo 20:8-11 and Jesus who is God made flesh Luke4:16 1John2:6 but instead, follow man-made traditions on a day God never sanctified seeking out ones own sanctification Isa66:17, not one of God's commandment's, its illogical and not biblical and something Jesus condemned Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14

But believe as you wish God gives us free will even if its leading someone the wrong way. He said this type of teachings would happen 2Tim 4:3-4 sad to see it come true, but it shows we are closer to His soon return, and when He comes our decisions will be sealed Rev22:11. So in my opinion, I think we need to get back to what the God of the Bible says, there is no one who has greater authority than He.
 
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Servus

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Are Christian males required to to be circumcised day according to God's commandment (Genesis 17:10-14)?

That's simple straightforward yes or no question. Are you able to answer it with a simple yes or no?
 
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Hentenza

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Again context,. He never said circumcision was abolished. He said it wasn't a means for salvation or to hear the word of God. Never was.
Neither is sabbath keeping a means of salvation. And, btw, no one makes the argument that it is “abolished”. Try not to make arguments based on fallacies.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Are Christian males required to to be circumcised on the 8th day according to God's commandment? That's simple straightforward yes or no question. Are you able to answer it with a simple yes or no?
I think we should, it never was abolished. There are a lot of health benefits to it and if I had a son, I would, but it can't save anyone which again which is what the Jews were teaching Acts 15:1 that Paul was correcting. Its no longer about gaining access to the sin solution, Jesus made that clear at the Cross had you read my post with these Scriptures.

Circumcision was never in the Ten Commandments, it was not part of the Testimony of God it served a different purpose which the Bible explains if we allow it to.
 
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Servus

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Neither is sabbath keeping a means of salvation. And, btw, no one makes the argument that it is “abolished”. Try not to make arguments based on fallacies.
Well I said abolished because any other term like fulfilled gets changed to abolished.
 
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Servus

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It's a covenant God commanded even before the Ten Commandments. So why then isn't it a requirement of the SDA church?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Well I said abolished because any other term like fulfilled gets changed to abolished.
Its because it doesn't mean that, like one fulfilling their wedding covenant- doesn't mean it ends or is abolished or one can commit adultery, the exact opposite of what Jesus said He came to do, magnify His laws Isa 42:21, make them greater as He did Mat5:19-30 not make smaller or destroy, sadly as many teach.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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It's a covenant God commanded even before the Ten Commandments. So why then isn't it a requirement of the SDA church?
The Ten Commandments started at Creation according to God own Testimony in the Ten Commandments Exo20:11 so you're wrong about that.

You missing the point of circumcision and its purpose, I explained it by clear Scriptures. Not much more I can do.
 
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Hentenza

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Well I said abolished because any other term like fulfilled gets changed to abolished.
Because she uses harsh and terminal terms to dramatize her posts. It’s an emotional fallacy tactic to intimidate others. Legalist sects use these tactics often. Jesus fulfilled (completed) all of the law. In fact, those that are still under the law, like disbelieving Israel, are still being circumcised and the Jewish sabbath is still required. This notion alone invalidates her “abolished” descriptive moniker.
 
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Hentenza

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The new covenant is not a wedding covenant but a covenant of blood, Jesus blood. By negating this you are negating Jesus covenant of blood.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Jesus ratified His covenant by His blood, but His covenant is very much a wedding covenant. Anyone can enter though faith Gal3:26-29 and part of the promises. Faith does not void the law, it establishes it Rom3:31

The gentiles are grafted in by Sabbath-keeping

Isa 56:6“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant


Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.


Isa 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name.”

Eze 16:8 “I made My vow to you and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Lord GOD, and you became Mine.”

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [a]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Revelation 19:7
Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

I personally want to be in a wedding covenant with Christ, but we are given free will

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

One God, one body of people, those who have God's laws, not mans version, God's version Exo 31:18 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 because He is God, we are to be His humble servant and a servant is not greater than their master. John13:16
 
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