The term ‘woke right’ is less offensive than its ideas

[Michie]

Imagine that it's 2021 and you've run across a social media account loudly proclaiming that: 1. certain demographic groups are oppressed because of their race, gender, and sexuality 2. society is suffused by subtle "hegemonic narratives" that justify the power of dominant demographic groups, 3. most people are blind to these forces, and 4. the only solution is not reform but radical social transformation. You'd likely assume that you were talking to a progressive who was parroting the work of activist-scholars like Robin DiAngelo and Ibram X. Kendi.

In 2021, you would likely have been correct — a person making such claims would have almost been certainly a progressive. But anyone who has spent time on X (formerly known as Twitter) in the last few months knows that things have changed. Today, a small but vocal group of people on the right, including some Christians, are making these same claims with all the roles reversed: 1. straight white men are oppressed, 2. society is ruled by women and is suffused by hegemonic narratives like "the longhouse" and "the postwar consensus" 3. "normies" are blind to this reality and 4. the only solution is a Protestant Franco or a Christian prince.

Does this sound unbelievable? See for yourself here, here, and here. Some Christians on the right really are embracing a bizarro-world, photo-negative analog of wokeness, but with all the demographic roles reversed. For this reason, many ardent critics of wokeness, including atheist activist James Lindsay, cultural commentator Konstantin Kisin, comedian Andrew Doyle (aka Titania McGrath), and psychologist Jordan Peterson have begun to warn about the "woke right." To this list, we could add Evangelicals like Kevin DeYoung, Doug Wilson, and Seth Dillon, who have raised related concerns about what will happen to the Church if it rejects left-wing wokeness only to embrace the right-wing version.

Continued below.

The term ‘woke right’ is less offensive than its ideas

Is the label woke right legitimate Or is it just an unfair, overly broad slur

www.christianpost.com

 

[FireDragon76]

Doug Wilson and Kevin DeYoung have been feeding the leopard for years, though. They can't be surprised when the leopard finally comes for their faces.

Opposition can easily lead to reactionary sentiments if it involves othering people you disagree with, even if it's subtle. Christian Evangelicalism has a longstanding history of charged polemicism against modernity going back to the Fundamentalism-Modernist controversy, and sometimes that can spill out into a wider cultural posture that is overtly and aggressively resentful.

 

[Michie]

Disagreeing with someone is considered “othering”?

 

[Richard T]

Disagreeing with someone is considered “othering”?

Thanks for sharing this article on how some from the "right" are handling what they see as a USA crisis. Some are being assertive to "a “RETVRN” to some earlier cultural vision, whether one based on patriarchy, or rule by a Christian Prince, or blood-and-soil ethnonationalism. Regardless, like the woke left, the woke right believes that our current system is irredeemable and must be remade."

These "right" folks are ones that have been misunderstood and feel marginalized and attacked. So they have grouped and been emboldened by President Trump. Authoritarianism always is attractive when your way of life is under duress. This is why they are so adamant about pushing out refugees. They can't see them as part of the solution.

I have to say that I think they are doomed to failure. Partly this could stem from demographics, but the bigger part is that their policies are unworkable. They are too inward. In economics they seem similar even to many South American political leaders and academics who in earlier decades who tried an inward approach to development and trade. This approach from the likes of Wallerstein's World Systems Theory, or Dependency theorists such as Raul Prebisch are close to what the "woke right" are attempting. Yes, a neo-Marxist in orientation too. Ironic too that the USA is the hegemon claiming the same victimhood as those who are on peripheral if using Wallerstein's schema.

I hope I am wrong, but compassion seems lacking and in its place is a bitterness that lashes out at those who disagree with them. They have little public policy experience or knowledge but instead rely on emotions, disparaging remarks and in some cases, just like the left, bad science. Such science I would define as my way or the highway, with an imposition of truth that is far from reality and allows no dissension.

The big question is can this spin out of control? I don't think so but the combativeness with the courts and those that oppose them are intense. I would suggest the "groupthink" of the Trump administration is very high. Trump purged dissension and made that a goal from his last administration, and that too should give us pause. Congress too for the most part, remains silent like a child. Fortunately, public opinion still matters. Plus, the mid-term elections are likely to be a humbling experience, and hopefully not an angry one.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Wokeness is rooted in liberal assumptions of equality and equity. The so called 'woke right' rejects liberal principles of equality and especially they reject equity. So its a label deliberately designed to smear dissident right-wing thought.

 

[All Becomes New]

I try and keep an eye on Stephen Wolfe the author of the book, "The Case for Christian Nationalism." I am not saying that Wolfe himself holds to all these radical ideas, but he does enable them by never criticizing his tribe as going too far.

For issues on the "Woke Right" a good person to follow on X is Neil Shenvi who has done tremedeous work analyzing both the Woke Right and Critical Theory on the left.

This was recently posted by a moderate CN named Owen Strachan on the topic of the Woke Right, which displays the ideas perfectly.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I try and keep an eye on Stephen Wolfe the author of the book, "The Case for Christian Nationalism." I am not saying that Wolfe himself holds to all these radical ideas, but he does enable them by never criticizing his tribe as going too far.

For issues on the "Woke Right" a good person to follow on X is Neil Shenvi who has done tremedeous work analyzing both the Woke Right and Critical Theory on the left.

This was recently posted by a moderate CN named Owen Strachan on the topic of the Woke Right, which displays the ideas perfectly.

View attachment 364967

Neocons are really desperate to control right-wing opposition to them.

 

[All Becomes New]

Neocons are really desperate to control right-wing opposition to them.

Don't know what you are saying. Seems vague. Are you saying I am a neocon? Are you saying Wolfe is a neocon? Are you saying Neil is a neocon? Are you saying Owen is a neocon? IDK.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Don't know what you are saying. Seems vague. Are you saying I am a neocon? Are you saying Wolfe is a neocon? Are you saying Neil is a neocon? Are you saying Owen is a neocon? IDK.

I am saying Konstantin Kissin, Douglass Murray and others in that orbit are Neocons. The ideas of the 'Woke right' aren't based on wokeness but instead a rejection of liberalism broadly which values tradition, the sacred and community above idealistic notions inherent in liberal thought.

It makes no sense to classify those on the right who reject liberalism as the Woke Right. Reactionary, yes, anti liberal yes. But Woke? No.

 

[All Becomes New]

I am saying Konstantin Kissin, Douglass Murray and others in that orbit are Neocons. The ideas of the 'Woke right' aren't based on wokeness but instead a rejection of liberalism broadly which values tradition, the sacred and community above idealistic notions inherent in liberal thought.

It makes no sense to classify those on the right who reject liberalism as the Woke Right. Reactionary, yes, anti liberal yes. But Woke? No.

Follow Neil. He will show you the way.

 

[RDKirk]

I try and keep an eye on Stephen Wolfe the author of the book, "The Case for Christian Nationalism." I am not saying that Wolfe himself holds to all these radical ideas, but he does enable them by never criticizing his tribe as going too far.

For issues on the "Woke Right" a good person to follow on X is Neil Shenvi who has done tremedeous work analyzing both the Woke Right and Critical Theory on the left.

This was recently posted by a moderate CN named Owen Strachan on the topic of the Woke Right, which displays the ideas perfectly.

View attachment 364967

I like that chart.

I guess black Americans have forever lost ownership of the term "woke." Appropriated!

 

[Michie]

From Ron Dreher:

We live in news and information silos. Until yesterday, when The Free Press published my essay they titled “The Woke Right Is Coming For Your Sons,” I had no idea that James Lindsay, who appears to be the originator of the term, and his allies use it to attack the National Conservatism movement, of which I am a supporter. If I had, I would not have used the term, or allowed it to be used in the headline. That’s on me.

A conservative journalist friend chuckled over text this morning, “You aren’t online enough, my friend.” Nope, guess not.

I’ve appreciated Lindsay’s work in the past, sussing out the ideological and psychological details of wokeness; I quote him in Live Not By Lies. I follow him on X, but then, I follow over 700 accounts on X, and only a relative handful of tweets from those I follow ever make it into my stream. I don’t know how the algorithm works. Maybe one tends to see the tweets from people whose output one engages with in some way. For example, I see nearly everything Wes Yang and David Rieff tweet, because I often retweet them. I see very little of what James Lindsay tweets. Consequently, I missed that he has been using the “woke right” designation to slam conservatives like … well, conservatives like me.

Continued below.

Second Thoughts On 'Woke Right'

A Clarification: I Didn't Know The Full Meaning Of The Term, And Regret Using It

roddreher.substack.com

 

[iarwain]

Wokeness is rooted in liberal assumptions of equality and equity. The so called 'woke right' rejects liberal principles of equality and especially they reject equity. So its a label deliberately designed to smear dissident right-wing thought

Wokeness is rooted in the teachings of Karl Marx. It all comes from left wing ideology.

 

[lifepsyop]

Wokeness is rooted in the teachings of Karl Marx. It all comes from left wing ideology.

Left-wing ideology comes from classical liberalism.

particularly that governments are based on social contracts between individuals, and that individual 'rights' are supreme to any kind of social hierarchy or greater ruling authority.

'Conservatives' like Rod Dreher are really classical liberals, and they are upset that their liberal ideology is being rejected.