The Temple and the Sacrifices.

claninja said:

Yea, I read several studies on the kohen haplotype, and it has many limitations. The major one being no generic test can tell if you are of the line of Aaron. So, not sure how that’s gonna work…..

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As I said, it is NOT just DNA evidence...

Douggg said:

man-child is singular.

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So is the woman yet it represents Israel
So her child can represent the 144000

The first five verses establish who the woman is in the rest of Revelation 12. Those five verses are historic, not future. The remainder of Revelation 12 is future.

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that’s an assumption.. it describes the future brother

"Secular" ? The verses are not saying secular or religious... but the nation of Israel.

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Rev 14 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.


With

Rev12:13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

This did not happen in 1948

The nation that is born in a day begins with the 144000 .The rest flee to the wilderness for 3 1/2 years but they too become believers most likely because of the witnessing of the 144000.
That is what the scripture is revealing in Rev 12 . But some offspring will be killed until the numbers are completed but they too come out of great tribulation

The Jews in Revelation 12:10, do not become believers in Jesus until after the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6. There is no conflict with Daniel 9's 70th week.

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maybe so …but there no reason to believe that they don’t awaken from their slumber until the end .. The signs will be all around them in those days

Revelation 12:6-17 is not that far into the future.

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If you believe that you may become deceived by NASA lies and technology….

They are going to create a false end of the age and because it is manmade to deceive then it’s obvious that Jesus is not appearing afterwards

And when it’s all over Christianity will appear as a joke a lie and a bully. The so called Christian nations will be involved in the greatest hoax to come . It’s purpose is to cause Christian age to fall and a new age appear

I’m sorry to disappoint you Douggg but Jesus is not coming to earth to rule and reign anytime soon

But Judaism is going to be triumphant and create the false messianic age

Christianity will seem to come to its end …but the gospel of the kingdom will continue to be preached until the end of the false messianic age and then the end will come

The ones who flee into the wilderness when they see the abomination of desolation will escape the persecution of Satan in his wrath for the time/times/half time he will have left before being made a terror no more..

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yes but this is not going to take place anytime soon …

dfw69 said:

So is the woman yet it represents Israel
So her child can represent the 144000

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So you will be satisfied, I will explain....

Israel is one nation, singular - not many nations.

The man-child, singular is Jesus. In Isaiah 66:7 is man child singular. And in Isaiah 66:8 is her children plural.

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Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [the 144,000] ;

before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child [Jesus].

The man child in that verse is Jesus. The same man child in Isaiah 9:6.

Before she travailed in bringing forth her children, before her pain came - which is the pain of going through the great tribulation, 2000 years later, in the end times....

...Jesus, the deliverer, was born to Israel, which took place historically, 2000 years ago. The historic verses of Revelation 12:1-5. The remainder of Revelation 12:6-17 is end times.

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Next verse, Issaiah 66:8 is about the end times, When the Jews come out of the nations and Israel becomes a nation in the land again, born as such, in one day on May 14, 1948.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children (the rest of the Jews)

The 144,000 in verse 7
The rest of the Jews in verse 8

The 144,000, sealed in Revelation 7:3-4 are the firstfuits, the special group of Jews saved before the judgements of God begin - i.e. before the trumpet judgments and the bowls of God's wrath judgments get going in full swing once the great tribulation begins.

The 144,000 Jews are in Isaiah 66:7 "before Zion travailed".
The rest of the Jews are in Isaiah 66:8 "as soon as Zion travailed".

So all Israel will be saved, as it says in Romans 11.

What it boils down to is that the rest of the Jews will turn to Jesus, the deliverer, and the gospel of salvation in the early beginnings, i.e. as soon as Zion travailed, of the great tribulation - which will begin when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount.

dfw69 said:

I’m sorry to disappoint you Douggg but Jesus is not coming to earth to rule and reign anytime soon

But Judaism is going to be triumphant and create the false messianic age

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I don't know what you mean by soon, but Gog/Magog appears to be shaping up by what is going on with Russia in Ukraine imo, that will be right before the 7 years.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

As I said, it is NOT just DNA evidence...

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I don’t see where you said “not just dna evidence”. Can you clarify? How would some prove descent from Aaron, since dna tests can’t fully demonstrate that?

ralliann said:

I think they can tell a Levite, but not the sons of Aaron. But how can they tell if their mother is a Levite?

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Not sure on that one. I don’t think the x chromosome is as useful for looking at haplotypes. I know they rely on the Y chromosome due it’s near unchanging nature (with the exception of some mutations).

Douggg said:

I don't know what you mean by soon, but Gog/Magog appears to be shaping up by what is going on with Russia in Ukraine imo, that will be right before the 7 years.

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That’s what I mean bro none of that is shaping up .. no Gog Magog war, no AC in the temple ,no FP , no 10 nation alliance, no 70 week taking place in our lifetime

NASA will fake an end of days ..
Christian nations will be brought down low
Judaism will rise from the chaos
New age forms which is
a false messianic age

Douggg said:

So you will be satisfied, I will explain....

Israel is one nation, singular - not many nations.

The man-child, singular is Jesus. In Isaiah 66:7 is man child singular. And in Isaiah 66:8 is her children plural.

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Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [her children] ;

before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The man child in that verse is Jesus.

Before she travailed in bringing forth her children, before her pain came - which is the pain of going through the great tribulation, 2000 years later, in the end times....

...Jesus, the deliverer, was born to Israel, which took place historically, 2000 years ago. The historic verses of Revelation 12:1-5.

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Next verse is about the end times, When the Jews come out of the nations and Israel becomes a nation in the land again, born as such, in one day on May 14, 1948.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

"her children" - plural. That includes the 144,000, sealed in Revelation 7:3-4 before the judgements of God begin - i.e. before the trumpet judgments and the bowls of God's wrath judgments get going in full swing once the great tribulation begins.

What it boils down to is that the Jews will turn to Jesus, the deliverer, and the gospel of salvation in the early beginnings, i.e. as soon as Zion travailed, of the great tribulation - which will begin when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount.

I hope you are satisfied now, with what has been one of my better posts, as I put it all together for you. Jesus delivers us from our sins. I think you will agree with that.

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The man child is not Jesus but I understand why you believe that way but it’s simply not true ..

The man-child is yet to be born and the time of His birth will be before Daniel 70 week or as soon as Daniels 70 week begins

Rev reveals the birthing of the manchild before the sounding of of the 7 trumpets

And the rest of Israel awaken by the trumpet signs ..

The nation of Israel is yet to be born in a day …it is written the 144000 will rule with Jesus with an iron rod for 1000 years over the tribes of Israel ..So there will be 12000 elders for the tribe of Judah 12000 for the tribe of Rueben and so on …

Sure secular Israel was established in 1948 lead by Zionist parties but she is not born in a day according to the scriptures … The Zionist agenda is not keeping the commandments of God and testifies of Jesus as king of Israel.

Douggg as far as I know you are a futurist and believe in the gap between the 69th week and 70th week right?

So what starts the 70th week? Consider this …Israel is born again at the beginning of the 70 week with the birth of the 144000

If 1948 was the birth of Israel in a day then Dan 70 week would have started and Jesus would have returned in 1955

dfw69 said:

The man child is not Jesus but I understand why you believe that way but it’s simply not true ..

The man-child is yet to be born and the time of His birth will be before Daniel 70 week or as soon as Daniels 70 week begins

Rev reveals the birthing of the manchild before the sounding of of the 7 trumpets

And the rest of Israel awaken by the trumpet signs ..

The nation of Israel is yet to be born in a day …it is written the 144000 will rule with Jesus with an iron rod for 1000 years over the tribes of Israel ..So there will be 12000 elders for the tribe of Judah 12000 for the tribe of Rueben and so on …

Sure secular Israel was established in 1948 lead by Zionist parties but she is not born in a day according to the scriptures … The Zionist agenda is not keeping the commandments of God and testifies of Jesus as king of Israel.

Douggg as far as I know you are a futurist and believe in the gap between the 69th week and 70th week right?

So what starts the 70th week? Consider this …Israel is born again at the beginning of the 70 week with the birth of the 144000

If 1948 was the birth of Israel in a day then Dan 70 week would have started and Jesus would have returned in 1955

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Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Who is the "Deliverer" ?

"all Israel shall be saved", not just the 144,000.


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Go back to my post #144 and read about Isaiah 66:7 of who is the Deliverer.

Douggg said:

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

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Amen Israel is going to get born again and salvation is coming to them when God once again returns to pull on their hearts

Who is the "Deliverer" ?

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Jesus but the manchild is the 144000

"all Israel shall be saved", not just the 144,000.

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Which takes place during Dan 70th week

Douggg said:

So you will be satisfied, I will explain....

Israel is one nation, singular - not many nations.

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Yes one nation consisting of 12 tribes and many citizens

The man child is also a part of one nation. With 12000 of every tribe of that one nation.

The man-child, singular is Jesus. In Isaiah 66:7 is man child singular. And in Isaiah 66:8 is her children plural.

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do you not see that the manchild and her children are the same thing … the manchild is interpreted by the prophecy as Israel’s children (144000)

Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [her children] ;

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See the prophecy tells you the birth of her children (144000) takes place before her travail

before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

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Again before her travail she gives birth to the manchild which is her children the 144000

The man child in that verse is Jesus.

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Israel rejected Jesus they day so they were not born again yet but they will receive Him when Dan 70th week starts

The church was born after His death which is made up of Jew and gentiles who convert and believe to become family so that we are neither Jews nor gentiles but family and children of God

Before she travailed in bringing forth her children, before her pain came - which is the pain of going through the great tribulation, 2000 years later, in the end times

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yes see the children which is also the manchild are the 144000 of the tribes of Israel who will be born that day

Jesus, the deliverer, was born to Israel, which took place historically, 2000 years ago. The historic verses of Revelation 12:1-5.

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It’s not let’s read this carefully and see

12 A great sign appeared in heaven:

(This is a new sign …Jesus already was the lamb of God slain and glorified and standing in heaven when this sign appears)

a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

(Description of Israel)

2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

(She’s pregnant with children 144000
She cry’s out in pain her travail has come)


3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.

(Satan appears)

The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

(The moment the 144000 are born He wanted to eat them but something happened that prevented him from doing so)

5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

(She gives birth to the 144000 who will rule (with Christ) with an iron scepter )

(Israel child, not Gods Child, was snatched up from satan which will be the 144000)

Next verse is about the end times, When the Jews come out of the nations and Israel becomes a nation in the land again, born as such, in one day on May 14, 1948.

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1948 did not fulfill the prophecy or Jesus would be reigning today and Dan 70 week would be completed and we would be in the messianic age

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

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Yes Israel’s children the 144000 will be born in a day when the are sealed before the 7th trumpet

"her children" - plural. That includes the 144,000, sealed in Revelation 7:3-4 before the judgements of God begin - i.e. before the trumpet judgments and the bowls of God's wrath judgments get going in full swing once the great tribulation begins.

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her children are the 144000 to be sealed

What it boils down to is that the Jews will turn to Jesus, the deliverer, and the gospel of salvation in the early beginnings, i.e. as soon as Zion travailed, of the great tribulation - which will begin when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount.

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Yes Israel finally turn to believe in Gods Son as their King and Israel birth begins with the 144000 (the manchild) coming to know the true messiah

This is Israel’s disbelief that she is having a hard time believing that God had a Son and has given Him dominion over creation and has given Him the throne of David

dfw69 said:

Jesus but the manchild is the 144000

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Have you heard of this verse ?

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

A son is a man. Jesus is the man-child.

Why don't you think that the 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel is "her (Zion's) children" in Isaiah 66:8 ?

dfw69 said:

See the prophecy tells you the birth of her children (144000) takes place before her travail

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"before her travail" in Isaiah 66:7.

The 144,000 are sealed before any hurt is done to the earth, i.e hurt by the trumpet and bowls judgements. They are the first fruits (Revelation 14:4), the first of the Jews to turn to Jesus.

The rest of the Jews will turn to Jesus in the very beginnings of the great tribulation.... i.e. "as soon as Zion travailed" in Isaiah 66:8 "she brought forth her children"

Together, they are "her (Zion's) children".

That should tie up all the loose ends, dfw69.

I went back and fixed my post #144... to read...

Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [the 144,000] ;

See, I am willing to change, to be correct and accurate. How about you ?

Douggg said:

I agree that the presentation, the great wonder, that John saw in Revelation 12 was while John was in the third heaven. But that does not alter the first five verse of Revelation 12 are historic about the birth of Jesus and Satan wanting to kill him as soon as he was born.

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Let's analize more deeply what you are saying above.

Firts, JESUS was in heaven sitting on His Throne, and John was in heaven as a guest (Rev.4:1), and the woman (not the nation of Israel) also was in heaven, and the red Dragon was in heaven too, and he stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Second, I am astonished you have such inspiration and courage to say what you wrote above about the birth of JESUS. You, Doug, you are mocking the Lord JESUS, and thinking that my Lord's mind was/is the same as your earthly and corrupt mind for Him to speak through Revelation the same nonsense or rubbish as you are saying here, i.e. that even JESUS said in Revelation 12 that when he was born who was face to face with His mother Mary in Bethelem of Judea during and at that moment of childbirth was the Devil. Oh, what a sin this horrible thing being said by you, if you are not forgiven...what could happen with you?

Third. By the way, JESUS was already in the Egypt when Herod commanded to kill the children, actually several months had already passed when Herod had all the children in Bethlehem of Judea killed under the age of two. JESUS had already been in Egypt for a good time free from the satanic Herod. So, the god of this world has blinded your mind. Unfortunately, always you write in the way the Devil likes.

Douggg said:

Have you heard of this verse ?

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Of course

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

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Yes one of my fav verse Jesus is a Wonderful Counselor and a mighty God.. Our everlasting Father and Prince of Peace

A son is a man. Jesus is the man-child.

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no He is not … lol the scriptures are referring to Israel and her children in the woman and her son … born in the last days during Dan 70th week

Why don't you think that the 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel is "her (Zion's) children" in Isaiah 66:8 ?

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I do believe that

7 “Before she goes into labor, (tribulation)
she gives birth; (to the 144000)
before the pains come upon her,(trib)
she delivers a manchild (144,000)
8 Who has ever heard of such things?
Who has ever seen things like this?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?(the sealing of the 144000)
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.(144000)

The entire verse is taking about the same thing the manchild and the 144000 are the same thing

eleos1954 said:

The Bible don't speak of a 3rd temple being built. Orthodox jews are inspired to build another temple because they do not believe Jesus is Messiah. It will not be built.

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Even if it was built it would be meaningless and would certainly not be something worthy of being called "the temple of God". Only something that God Himself would order to be built could be called "the temple of God" and this temple being talked about is definitely not something ordained by God as it is being planned by Christ-rejecting Jews.

Marilyn C said:

Sorry you don`t see that Israel will do what Israel wants, and not look to you for direction.

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That's the problem. They will do what they want instead of what God wants. This supposed third temple you're talking about is meaningless.

Douggg said:

"before her travail" in Isaiah 66:7.

The 144,000 are sealed before any hurt is done to the earth, i.e hurt by the trumpet and bowls judgements. They are the first fruits (Revelation 14:4), the first of the Jews to turn to Jesus.

The rest of the Jews will turn to Jesus in the very beginnings of the great tribulation.... i.e. "as soon as Zion travailed" in Isaiah 66:8 "she brought forth her children"

Together, they are "her (Zion's) children".

That should tie up all the loose ends, dfw69.

I went back and fixed my post #144... to read...

Isaiah 66:7
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [the 144,000] ;

See, I am willing to change, to be correct and accurate. How about you ?

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I appreciate you agreeing with me on that point douggg thanks

dfw69 said:

no He is not …

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You are right. The manchild is not JESUS.

dfw69 said:

... lol the scriptures are referring to Israel and her children in the woman and her son … born in the last days during Dan 70th week

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No, Scripture is not referring to Israel, absolutely. It's you yourself are saying and referring to that.

But you are right when refer that the event of the birth of man child is linked to the last days, but you fail thinking the man child birth is during the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27. It is not true.

eleos1954 said:

But the Bible does tell of a new Temple in Jerusalem during the end times. 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Ezekiel 40 to 46
It will be God's Temple and His glory will be in it. Ezekiel 43:1-4.

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I'm just shaking my head. What would be the purpose of such a temple? I guess you believe that animal sacrifices and offerings will be offered again for the atonement of the Israelite people?

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings,grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Why would this be done in the future in light of Christ's "once for all" sacrifice for the atonement of the sins of the world? That would make no sense and would be an insult to Christ's work on the cross.

Please take these words to heart:

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”